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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Benny89" data-source="post: 7550140" data-attributes="member: 6983731">Disagree hard. Variant Human is better optimization-wise. Even if we talk crits.Half-Elf is only best for Vengeance Paladin/Hexblade (best 1 level, not two in both cases/races) if he uses Sword and Board because he is very stretched in ASI. But that is not maximum damage Paladin. Vuman is better for that. And even in crit fishing Half-Elf is only marginally better. Check below.Also imortant advise: with 2 levels Hexblade you lose 1 ASI. With Half-Elf you are already 1 ASI behind vs Vuman. Either 1 level dip or 4 levels dip to not lose last ASI.Half Elf:Also if we talk point buy- you want to use CHA for attacks (so Hexblade) but you also need 13 STR anyway to multi out of Paladin and you have to stay on medium armors or go 15 STR (not recommended) for Plate. You start with 17 CHA since you can't start with 18 so we will need ASI for CHA asap.He needs at least three mandatory feats: RES (CON) for Haste, +1 CHA to get 18 CHA amd Elven Accuracy. Accuracy + Res (CON) or +1 CHA and Accuracy is level 9 at earliest with Pally 1/Hexblade 1/Rest Vengeance to make full combo of VoE->Haste->Curse and abuse Elven Accuracy. He will have either CHA 18 at level 13 assuming he started with Elven Accuracy + RES (CON) or he won't see RES (CON) till level 13 assuming he started with CHA +1 and Accuracy. And RES (CON) is huge for Vengeance Pally.This is good build for crit fishing but not for maximizng NOVA and DPR damage per turn. He will have only 18 CHA at level 13 and Elven Accuracy + CON. Also 1 handed weapon + Duelist. The only good thing is potentially more crits (which is not even true).Variant Human:Vuman is superior for max dmg Vengeance because you can go pure ham PAM build (only race that should do it because of extra feat) and on level 8 you have: PAM (extra attack for Smite and GWM) level 1, Great Weapon Master level 4 (+10 dmg) and RES (CON) level 8. With 1 dip Hex blade we stretch that to level 9. So at level 13 (assuming no Strength Items, which is doubtful, but let's say it's low magic campaign) he has PAM, GWM, RES (CON) and 18 STR. Plus Curse from Hexblade. That is one extra 1d4 + 10 + Smite + 2x d20 rolls attack. Plus Curse.Variant Human for Vengeance Paladin will always deal more consistent damage and higher Nova because you can go PAM and GWM build. Either VoE for Boss or Bless for rest will be enough to make GWM consistent. More attacks = more smites. And more attacks- more d20 rolls. And only 1 level Hexblade for 19-20 cirt fishing. We don't need early +1 ASI, we don't need to delay our maximum damage potential. Since we go straight STR we also get Plate Armor.Half-Elf might seem as better choice for Crit Fishing, but that is false. He is marginally better than PAM V-uman:Assuming 13 level with Haste going + VoE:Half Elf will attack 3 times: 2 attacks + bonus attack. That is 6 rolls of d20 + 3 rerolls because of Elven Accuracy. Overall- that is 9 x d20 rolls for potential critis.Variant Human PAM build will attack 4 times for sure with potential 5th attack from Opportunity Attack from reaction (PAM if enemy won initiative and attacks Paladin) in first turn. But let's assume 4 for now: PAM, 2 attacks + Bonus Attack. That is 8 rolls of d20.Now assuming VoE enemy will also trigger PAM opportunity attack if we lost initiative (which can happen fairy often with dices) the Vuman PAM will roll additional 2 d20 on OA, which in first turn will give him total of 10 x d20 rolls for cirts.Both builds have 19-20 crits with 1 Hexblade dip.So Half-Elf with Elven Accuracy and optimized Sword-Board build get's only 1 additional d20 roll for crit fishing while losing plate, bonus attack for Smite and Great Weapon Mastery.Of course you can try to make PAM Half-Elf but the amount of feats required here would push it so far in levels to get full potential that it's not worth it at all. You could take PAM as Half-Elf and skip GWM to grab RES (CON) and Elven Accuracy asap, but you imo there is no point on Vengeance Pally to take PAM without GWM. You lose tons of potential damage here and you delay your +1 ASI to CHA even more. At best you could do level: 4- +1 CHA ASI, 8- RES (CON), 12- PAM and 16- Elven Accuracy. Even if you change stuff around- waaay tooo looong. You can also go Greatsword but amout for d20 rolls won't change.The ultimate Vengeance Paladin melee build was always PAM Variant Human wiht 1 dip Hexblade if all you want is absolutely max damage and almost max crits. Half-Elf is too ASI stretched with one feat behind and Elven Accuracy.****Disclaimer: Yes, I know there is OP Double Scimitar which would make Half-Elf then little better than Vuman, but a) it's a Erebor weapon and most DMs don't have it in other settings or don't allow it b) it's absolutely broken weapon and all DMs I play with (and myself as DM) don't allow it as it's just OP melee that makes others melees worse and c) it's very DM-dependend so I didn't include it. I never seen it allowed at table in form they released it and that is good. One weapon should not be better than every other melee weapon in game and have no downsides.</blockquote>

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