Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Benny89" data-source="post: 7550216" data-attributes="member: 6983731">I admit and stand corrected at +1 CHA. Res Con is mandatory on Vengeance Paladin because losing Haste makes you sitting duck and you dont want to lose slots to recast buffs because that is smite lost and Action economy lost. So assuming +1 Cha from accuracy we still need res con so 8-9 level and 20,CHA on 13 level. That makes half elf better than I thought but still behind vuman when it comes to dmg. On 13 level half elf will have +2 more to hit (assuming vuman dont have ogre gloves or giant belt at this point) but deal less dmg, less nova, less dpr and less smites and having only one more d20 roll on VoE target where it all come to play.If you dont think RES (CON) is mandatory on front line Vegeance Paladin then you probably never played one at higher tiers. I assume you didnt play tier 3 and above with Paladin? Because enemies at high CR will easly give you Conc DC of more than default 10. Even with +7 to save throw you are not in 100% save on DC 10. DC 15+ can easly kill you if you lose haste because you are losing action or screw your acgion economy. And high CR enemies can easly cause DC of 18+. More than that- you are usually attack more than once per turn (especially at higher CR the multi attack is more prominent). Even with High AC you will take hits. You need to fail only one save to lose buff and in case of haste- whole action, which can be deadly. You also lose action enecomy as you need to re-buff yourself instead of doing dmg. I dont think you realize what dmg you can take on high CRs.. +7 to save assuming 14 CON and 20 CHA is not reliable at all at high CR. If you usually play only till like level 10- then ok, you don't need RES (CON) that much and you can skip it. But tier 3 and higher - yes, you need it as you never ever want to fail Conc on Haste during hardest battle (which is when Haste should be used for).Still vuman PAM will be only Little less efficient in crit fishing where it matters (boss) and still have better Nova and DPR. Also Elven Accuracy may or may not come to Play more in non VoE scenarios but that is party and situation depend. He may or may not get advantage from other sources. While PAM is always beneficial. Sure there is overrated Darkness + devil sight combo but it takes Full Action to cast, takes place of a Haste and can be easly countered by one Daylight of Dispel Magic spell, where Daylight is known to every caster class in game.While I stand corrected about CHA ASI the vuman on PAM build is still better optimized choice do max dmg and Nova Vengeance Paladin (as this guide author even said). And its only marginally worse at crit fish on demand with VOE but has better action economy, more DPR and more smites.So if he wants max dmg and dpr- vuman > half elf. If he wants to give up higher consistent DRP and NOVA vs for better crit fishing - then he should take Half Elf. But if we talk 100% dmg/nova optimalization- Vuman. Unless he wants to do PAM half elf but two-handed weapons without GWM is not optimized choice in my opinion.</blockquote>

Verification