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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Benny89" data-source="post: 7551022" data-attributes="member: 6983731">I disagreee. I don't see a reason for Half-Elf to take PAM without GWM. That is totally useless. He will do extra 1k4 + 5 + 1k8 without GWM. That is on average extra 9,5 dmg without smite. With Duelist and using one-handed sword with 3 attack he willl deal extra +2 per attack so +6. Meaning on average he gain extra 3,5 dmg per turn. Sure he gets extra attack for smite but using two-handed weapon without GWM is just not optimizal at all. You don't gain enough to off-set +2 duelist nad +2 AC from shield here.In my opinion your assumption is bad in the moment you suggest for Vengeance Paladin to take PAM without GWM. With VoE (and even with Half-Elf and their Accuracy) it's just waste of talent potential.Secondly. +8 to CON saves might be enough for standard normal attacks. However there are enemies doing a lot different kinds of attacks, like poison etc. which on fail save can deal easly 30+ damage + attack if DM get good dices. When you use Haste you don't want to make assumption "I should succeed on most CONC saves" as all it takes is one fail for you to end up potentially dead. You want to make sure you will succeed every CONC save (or at least as much as possible). I am sorry but I get expression that most people who say that RES (CON) is skippable on Vengeance Paladin mostly never played one and don't realize how easy is to fail a save especially if there are a lot of multi attack enemies. Damage doesn't have to be big, but you can still fail. And one haste fail and if DM is not playing easy-mode - you can easly die.Quater Stuff + Shield is better DPR than PAM + GWN + Glaive? What?1k6 + 2 + 5 + 1k8 (if we have Improved Smite) x 3 (Let's say we have haste on) + 1k4 + 2 +5 + 1k8 is 45 + 14 = average 59 per turn.1k10 + 10 + 1k8 + 5 x 3 + 1k4 + 10 + 1k8 + 5 is 75 + 22 = avereage 97 per turn. That is almost 40 dmg difference.Hell, we could not use Haste and use Bless intead to off set GWM moer and it still would be better DPR:2x 25 + 22 = 50 + 22 = 72 vs 59 of Quaterstaff + Shield.Even 3k8 Smite won't compensate on Average with + 10 of GWM. This is just wrong.</blockquote>

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