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[GUIDE] The Sorlock – Guide to the tormented divine soul with Xanathar's Divine Soul(17)+Hexblade(3) [Updated 12/20/21]
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<blockquote data-quote="Khazidhea87" data-source="post: 8302613" data-attributes="member: 7031139"><p>I'm late to the party, but as I grew interested in Voice of the Chain since reading the guide I ended up <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/nwd41w/voice_of_the_chain_master_new_ability_or/" target="_blank">looking into it a bit deeper </a>so I thought I'd add this in here in case it would be helpful for anyone else.</p><p></p><p>My main takeaway was that there are decent reasons to think that Voice of the Chain Master and Find Familiar are linked, especially when considering RAI. Yet when looking at RAW there is little to support this interpretation primarily due to the linkage between the invocation and the spell being implicit rather than explicit, as well as it seemingly goes against the relevant precedents we do have to refer to, if it is indeed a rule modification rather than the gifting of a new ability:</p><ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Outside of VotCM there are two other PotC invocations that reference familiars. One explicitly calls out the Find Familiar spell, the casting of which, and lays out how it is modifying said spell. The other doesn't build off anything within the spell so presumably it is instead granting a new feature that simply requires having a familiar (within range). Lacking calling out Find Familiar by name VotCM aligns closer with the latter, so reasonably grants a new ability that simply requires a familiar (within range), rather than modifying the rules of a spell</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Invocations in general seem to be self contained, except where explicitly noting otherwise. Singular spells also <em>never </em>(that I can see) are modified by implication, instead each time are explicitly named. This is particularly true when it comes to invocations involving spells. For VotCM to be modifying a spell rather than granting a new ability it would be the only one that does so in this way (~30 odd invocations that explicitly reference spells by name, 9 or so of which that explicitly modify a spell (beyond slot/material limitations))</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Lastly (I'm less sure on this point, but think it holds up), if VotCM modifies Find Familiar it does so incredibly awkwardly. Find Familiar is an instantaneous spell, so if the spell itself is being changed then presumably it will have no effect on existing familiars. So FF would need to be cast again to have any effect, yet VotCM neglects to mention to do so.</li> </ol></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Khazidhea87, post: 8302613, member: 7031139"] I'm late to the party, but as I grew interested in Voice of the Chain since reading the guide I ended up [URL='https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/nwd41w/voice_of_the_chain_master_new_ability_or/']looking into it a bit deeper [/URL]so I thought I'd add this in here in case it would be helpful for anyone else. My main takeaway was that there are decent reasons to think that Voice of the Chain Master and Find Familiar are linked, especially when considering RAI. Yet when looking at RAW there is little to support this interpretation primarily due to the linkage between the invocation and the spell being implicit rather than explicit, as well as it seemingly goes against the relevant precedents we do have to refer to, if it is indeed a rule modification rather than the gifting of a new ability: [LIST=1] [*]Outside of VotCM there are two other PotC invocations that reference familiars. One explicitly calls out the Find Familiar spell, the casting of which, and lays out how it is modifying said spell. The other doesn't build off anything within the spell so presumably it is instead granting a new feature that simply requires having a familiar (within range). Lacking calling out Find Familiar by name VotCM aligns closer with the latter, so reasonably grants a new ability that simply requires a familiar (within range), rather than modifying the rules of a spell [*]Invocations in general seem to be self contained, except where explicitly noting otherwise. Singular spells also [I]never [/I](that I can see) are modified by implication, instead each time are explicitly named. This is particularly true when it comes to invocations involving spells. For VotCM to be modifying a spell rather than granting a new ability it would be the only one that does so in this way (~30 odd invocations that explicitly reference spells by name, 9 or so of which that explicitly modify a spell (beyond slot/material limitations)) [*]Lastly (I'm less sure on this point, but think it holds up), if VotCM modifies Find Familiar it does so incredibly awkwardly. Find Familiar is an instantaneous spell, so if the spell itself is being changed then presumably it will have no effect on existing familiars. So FF would need to be cast again to have any effect, yet VotCM neglects to mention to do so. [/LIST] [/QUOTE]
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[GUIDE] The Sorlock – Guide to the tormented divine soul with Xanathar's Divine Soul(17)+Hexblade(3) [Updated 12/20/21]
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