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<blockquote data-quote="(Psi)SeveredHead" data-source="post: 5374949" data-attributes="member: 1165"><p>Avoid.</p><p></p><p>The last time I took part in such a debate, someone proved to me that handguns were being (infrequently) used in the Hundred Years' War. (The actual documents stated "hand gonnes", so they weren't cannons just being called guns. *Sigh* )</p><p></p><p>Anyway, I avoid them. Even in settings where they fit better, like most d20 Modern settings, people tend to fetishize them in a way that's scarier than katana fetishes. Because guns are not only real and frequently used, but people <em>actually know stuff about them</em>, I've had players confront me with real-life stats of really badass guns they want their characters to use. My current d20 Modern campaign takes place in the early 1970s, and I still have to deal with "really cool guns". (Modern isn't DnD, it doesn't have a magic item equivalent system, and I refuse to design one for modern guns.)</p><p></p><p>The WotC Modern boards were (and probably still are) infested with threads where people complain the gun rules aren't granular enough, a 10 mm gun should do more damage than a 9 mm gun but less than an 11 mm gun (because in real life, they do!) and players routinely just go for the biggest gun they can get, without realizing that a Barret Light 50 is a) not light b) not portable 3) not in the least big legal 4) you're better off using a sniper rifle rather than an anti-material rifle.</p><p></p><p>The biggest problem, I think, is because old guns were pretty "crappy" in real life <em>and</em> the biggest enthusiasts about guns often insist that they be "realistic" (while ignoring the unrealism of swords, something most of us know little about anyway). So guns do big damage (you know, swords are pretty deadly too, so why not crank their damage as well?) with unfun restrictions (expensive, tend to misfire or even blow up, take three rounds to load, etc). <em>Realistic</em>, sure, so why put them into a <em>game</em>?</p><p></p><p>The main reason people used muskets and other such guns in real life was because you could more easily train 1000 guys to use guns (with a bare amount of competence, focusing on rate of fire to the exclusion of accuracy and other such traits) than 100 archers. So you've got these unreliable, barely accurate weapons, pretty handy when you've got armies of thousands of soldiers vs similar armies, but not so handy when you've got an adventuring party of four or five people! Unless you're playing Napoleonic Era Squads & Soldiers, you're probably trying to shoehorn the wrong type of weapon into the gaming construct.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Cheers. (This is what I get for skipping 7 pages.)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That sounds ... overly complicated.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="(Psi)SeveredHead, post: 5374949, member: 1165"] Avoid. The last time I took part in such a debate, someone proved to me that handguns were being (infrequently) used in the Hundred Years' War. (The actual documents stated "hand gonnes", so they weren't cannons just being called guns. *Sigh* ) Anyway, I avoid them. Even in settings where they fit better, like most d20 Modern settings, people tend to fetishize them in a way that's scarier than katana fetishes. Because guns are not only real and frequently used, but people [i]actually know stuff about them[/i], I've had players confront me with real-life stats of really badass guns they want their characters to use. My current d20 Modern campaign takes place in the early 1970s, and I still have to deal with "really cool guns". (Modern isn't DnD, it doesn't have a magic item equivalent system, and I refuse to design one for modern guns.) The WotC Modern boards were (and probably still are) infested with threads where people complain the gun rules aren't granular enough, a 10 mm gun should do more damage than a 9 mm gun but less than an 11 mm gun (because in real life, they do!) and players routinely just go for the biggest gun they can get, without realizing that a Barret Light 50 is a) not light b) not portable 3) not in the least big legal 4) you're better off using a sniper rifle rather than an anti-material rifle. The biggest problem, I think, is because old guns were pretty "crappy" in real life [i]and[/i] the biggest enthusiasts about guns often insist that they be "realistic" (while ignoring the unrealism of swords, something most of us know little about anyway). So guns do big damage (you know, swords are pretty deadly too, so why not crank their damage as well?) with unfun restrictions (expensive, tend to misfire or even blow up, take three rounds to load, etc). [i]Realistic[/i], sure, so why put them into a [i]game[/i]? The main reason people used muskets and other such guns in real life was because you could more easily train 1000 guys to use guns (with a bare amount of competence, focusing on rate of fire to the exclusion of accuracy and other such traits) than 100 archers. So you've got these unreliable, barely accurate weapons, pretty handy when you've got armies of thousands of soldiers vs similar armies, but not so handy when you've got an adventuring party of four or five people! Unless you're playing Napoleonic Era Squads & Soldiers, you're probably trying to shoehorn the wrong type of weapon into the gaming construct. Cheers. (This is what I get for skipping 7 pages.) That sounds ... overly complicated. [/QUOTE]
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