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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Haltherrion" data-source="post: 5396411" data-attributes="member: 18253">China is a valid and interesting case. They certainly seemed to progress at a slower rate than Europe but looking over my posts, I did try to caveat my comments that progress need not progress as it did in Europe. China still progressed in its innovation, developing a wide range of gunpowder weapons by the 1600s. Perhaps they were slower than the Europeans but they were changing as well. While gunpowder's role in changes in Europe from the late middle ages into the Renaissance is hard to disentangle from other factors and precisely quantify, it sometimes feels that folks argue it had no affect whatsoever when it clearly had a dramatic effect. That said, I'll freely admit it can be integrated into interesting fantasy settings. My objections are more aesthetic objections when it is poorly integrated into the setting (as it often is).</blockquote>