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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 9281607" data-attributes="member: 4937">There are plenty of good rules for guns out there at any level of granularity from casual to gun nut.&nbsp; The problem is twofold and IMO has nothing to do with the concerns you raise. The first is that guns are principally NPC powers.&nbsp; You see, heroic fiction is based on the idea of single heroes prevailing against overwhelming odds.&nbsp; But this isn't the reality that guns create and no RPG fully deals with that without creating some compensating idea.&nbsp; Heroic ages are ages in which defense overwhelms offense in battle, so that single armored individuals if sufficiently well trained can overcome a dozen foes.&nbsp; But when offense overcomes defense in battle, you get ages of conscription where battles are determined principally by numbers and logistics and the influence of the individual is small.&nbsp; In ages of conscription the focus is not on the hero but on the commander.If you bring guns into D&amp;D NPCs always get a bigger advantage out of the democratization of power than PCs do.&nbsp; The more realistic your guns, the more a low-level character can successfully threaten a high level one in ways they couldn't before.&nbsp; Sam Colt makes all men equal, or at least more equal than they had ever been.&nbsp; You can make up shields or jedi powers or whatever to return the heroic balance, but with the addition of guns alone you are changing the tone of the campaign.&nbsp; Guns will become like the magical engines of death in Kirosawa's &quot;Seven Samuraii&quot;.&nbsp; A squad of Musketeers need not be high level to be threatening, and even if they get off only one volley that volley can tell.&nbsp; D&amp;D just isn't set up for this.Worse in my opinion is that if you allow guns you are allowing stable explosives.&nbsp; And explosives change the equation more than guns do.&nbsp; At least with guns you can have a heroic shoot out.&nbsp; But explosives mean demolition and sabotage and highly unheroic activities as the means of conflict resolution.So no guns.&nbsp; It's not the guns or the gun rules that are the real problem.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 9281607, member: 4937"] There are plenty of good rules for guns out there at any level of granularity from casual to gun nut. The problem is twofold and IMO has nothing to do with the concerns you raise. The first is that guns are principally NPC powers. You see, heroic fiction is based on the idea of single heroes prevailing against overwhelming odds. But this isn't the reality that guns create and no RPG fully deals with that without creating some compensating idea. Heroic ages are ages in which defense overwhelms offense in battle, so that single armored individuals if sufficiently well trained can overcome a dozen foes. But when offense overcomes defense in battle, you get ages of conscription where battles are determined principally by numbers and logistics and the influence of the individual is small. In ages of conscription the focus is not on the hero but on the commander. If you bring guns into D&D NPCs always get a bigger advantage out of the democratization of power than PCs do. The more realistic your guns, the more a low-level character can successfully threaten a high level one in ways they couldn't before. Sam Colt makes all men equal, or at least more equal than they had ever been. You can make up shields or jedi powers or whatever to return the heroic balance, but with the addition of guns alone you are changing the tone of the campaign. Guns will become like the magical engines of death in Kirosawa's "Seven Samuraii". A squad of Musketeers need not be high level to be threatening, and even if they get off only one volley that volley can tell. D&D just isn't set up for this. Worse in my opinion is that if you allow guns you are allowing stable explosives. And explosives change the equation more than guns do. At least with guns you can have a heroic shoot out. But explosives mean demolition and sabotage and highly unheroic activities as the means of conflict resolution. So no guns. It's not the guns or the gun rules that are the real problem. [/QUOTE]

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