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Guns in D&D - A Hot Take
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<blockquote data-quote="Sacrosanct" data-source="post: 7561979" data-attributes="member: 15700"><p>Maximum effective range <strong><em>IS </em></strong>effective practical range. That's what it means. It's the literal definition of it.</p><p></p><p>There aren't many records of pistol distance in combat, but there are a few:</p><p></p><p>* R.J. Thomas, 1969 in Vietnam using a 1911. Killed 10 Viet Cong as they approached his downed helicopter up to ranges of over 100 meters away</p><p>* Wild Bill, 1861, armed with his .36 caliber SA Navy revolver, shot David McCanles at 74 meters.</p><p>* Wild Bill again, 1865, took out Davis Tutt at 75-80 meters with his pistol</p><p>* Sr. Airman Andy Brown took out an active shooter Dean Mellberg in 1994 with his pistol at 70 meters</p><p>* An Edmond OK officer arrived on scene with an active shooter shooting at them with an M1 Garand (US WWII standard issue rifle in 30.06 caliber), and hit him with his second shot (Glock 21 .45 ACP) at 75 meters</p><p>* St. Joseph, Mo, 1998, a gunman killed two cops and wounded a fireman before being shot by an officer at 60-70m away with is Glock</p><p>* Bobby Tribble, 1997, off duty cop shot an armed robber at 27 yards---with a tiny snub nosed .38, while under fire from said robber</p><p></p><p>Then there are lots of other references with much less detail, like a man in his 60s in Texas taking out a guy shooting at cops at 65 meters with his .357, or in San Antonio a cop returning fire and hitting his target at 100 meters. Or a reference about the longest pistol shot in WWII being at 88 meters. </p><p></p><p>But honestly though, even without all of those examples, I'm pretty confident that anyone with experience with firearms, and anyone who has been in a high stress situation where firearms were used (I've qualify for both), would find the notion that the maximum effective range of a pistol is 20m as laughable. It just doesn't make any sense. The military largely defines the maximum effective range as having a 50% change of hitting your target under the conditions you described. And for a pistol like my issued 92F Beretta 9mm, it was 50m. </p><p> For revolvers, it's a bit higher due to longer and stationary barrels (and 92Fs suck). Yeah, a lot of times in a fight it becomes spray and pray. But that's why people train so much. Once you have muscle memory, your reaction and body does the exact same thing when under mental stress as when practicing on the range. You don't even think about it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sacrosanct, post: 7561979, member: 15700"] Maximum effective range [B][I]IS [/I][/B]effective practical range. That's what it means. It's the literal definition of it. There aren't many records of pistol distance in combat, but there are a few: * R.J. Thomas, 1969 in Vietnam using a 1911. Killed 10 Viet Cong as they approached his downed helicopter up to ranges of over 100 meters away * Wild Bill, 1861, armed with his .36 caliber SA Navy revolver, shot David McCanles at 74 meters. * Wild Bill again, 1865, took out Davis Tutt at 75-80 meters with his pistol * Sr. Airman Andy Brown took out an active shooter Dean Mellberg in 1994 with his pistol at 70 meters * An Edmond OK officer arrived on scene with an active shooter shooting at them with an M1 Garand (US WWII standard issue rifle in 30.06 caliber), and hit him with his second shot (Glock 21 .45 ACP) at 75 meters * St. Joseph, Mo, 1998, a gunman killed two cops and wounded a fireman before being shot by an officer at 60-70m away with is Glock * Bobby Tribble, 1997, off duty cop shot an armed robber at 27 yards---with a tiny snub nosed .38, while under fire from said robber Then there are lots of other references with much less detail, like a man in his 60s in Texas taking out a guy shooting at cops at 65 meters with his .357, or in San Antonio a cop returning fire and hitting his target at 100 meters. Or a reference about the longest pistol shot in WWII being at 88 meters. But honestly though, even without all of those examples, I'm pretty confident that anyone with experience with firearms, and anyone who has been in a high stress situation where firearms were used (I've qualify for both), would find the notion that the maximum effective range of a pistol is 20m as laughable. It just doesn't make any sense. The military largely defines the maximum effective range as having a 50% change of hitting your target under the conditions you described. And for a pistol like my issued 92F Beretta 9mm, it was 50m. For revolvers, it's a bit higher due to longer and stationary barrels (and 92Fs suck). Yeah, a lot of times in a fight it becomes spray and pray. But that's why people train so much. Once you have muscle memory, your reaction and body does the exact same thing when under mental stress as when practicing on the range. You don't even think about it. [/QUOTE]
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