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<blockquote data-quote="TheCosmicKid" data-source="post: 6903872" data-attributes="member: 6683613">By &quot;arcane magic&quot; I assume you mean &quot;wizardry&quot;, because sorcerers, bards, and warlocks sure aren't scientific. (Frankly, &quot;arcane magic&quot; is more a catch-all label than a real type of magic.) And yes, wizards are at least in the business of intellectual inquiry, but they're still in the memorize-what-works-and-repeat-it-by-rote stage, like ancient engineers before advanced mathematics. The scientist in me recoils at calling any discipline that uses the term &quot;ritual&quot; &quot;scientific&quot;. One does not conduct the Ritual of Titration in chemistry (unless one is a Warhammer 40K tech-priest, QED).And what wizards can do barely scratches the surface of magic. In just about every setting there are always older and deeper magics that wizards cannot control or even understand.PS: Look up the word &quot;arcane&quot;. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />So because the source of the power is &quot;magic&quot;, it's automatically fantasy? If we called electricity &quot;magic&quot; would our own world be fantastical? Because that's really the question here: is magic in this setting treated as something regular and functional like electricity, or is it treated as something mystical and numinous like a thunderstorm?Really? The plot centers around prophecy, which is not understood, the school studies about which are Hogwarts hogwash, which is totally unpredictable (ironically), and which is very rare even among wizards. Ditto the power of love, ancient irreproducible artifacts, and secret rituals to make oneself immortal. The magic Harry and friends learn to control is surface-level stuff. And in the hands of a different author, could easily become a SF-style tool. Ever heard of <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/FanFic/HarryPotterAndTheMethodsOfRationality" target="_blank">Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality</a>? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />This is tautological. What makes something &quot;fantastical&quot;? I assume you don't think Star Trek is a fantasy franchise; what makes Star Trek not fantastical?
We actually have those, you know.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="TheCosmicKid, post: 6903872, member: 6683613"] By "arcane magic" I assume you mean "wizardry", because sorcerers, bards, and warlocks sure aren't scientific. (Frankly, "arcane magic" is more a catch-all label than a real type of magic.) And yes, wizards are at least in the business of intellectual inquiry, but they're still in the memorize-what-works-and-repeat-it-by-rote stage, like ancient engineers before advanced mathematics. The scientist in me recoils at calling any discipline that uses the term "ritual" "scientific". One does not conduct the Ritual of Titration in chemistry (unless one is a Warhammer 40K tech-priest, QED). And what wizards can do barely scratches the surface of magic. In just about every setting there are always older and deeper magics that wizards cannot control or even understand. PS: Look up the word "arcane". :) So because the source of the power is "magic", it's automatically fantasy? If we called electricity "magic" would our own world be fantastical? Because that's really the question here: is magic in this setting treated as something regular and functional like electricity, or is it treated as something mystical and numinous like a thunderstorm? Really? The plot centers around prophecy, which is not understood, the school studies about which are Hogwarts hogwash, which is totally unpredictable (ironically), and which is very rare even among wizards. Ditto the power of love, ancient irreproducible artifacts, and secret rituals to make oneself immortal. The magic Harry and friends learn to control is surface-level stuff. And in the hands of a different author, could easily become a SF-style tool. Ever heard of [URL="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/FanFic/HarryPotterAndTheMethodsOfRationality"][I]Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality[/I][/URL]? :) This is tautological. What makes something "fantastical"? I assume you don't think Star Trek is a fantasy franchise; what makes Star Trek [I]not[/I] fantastical? [LEFT][COLOR=#000000] [/COLOR][/LEFT] We actually have those, you know. [/QUOTE]

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