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<blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 6821910" data-attributes="member: 177">It is questionable that this was really &quot;gun like&quot;, insofar as it was not intended for what we think of today as &quot;ranged combat&quot;.&nbsp; The projectile was present, but it was used as much or more for the flame-throwing effect it produced.&nbsp; It had a range of a few feet, and was intended to shoot the guy you were about to stab anyway - it is a boost in melee, essentially.To quote a couple of Wikipedia articles:The earliest firearm was &quot;discovered... in Manchuria dating from the 1200s&quot;, and the earliest artistic depiction of a hand cannon is a firearm-wielding figure that was found in twelfth-century Sichuan. The earliest reliable evidence of hand cannons in Europe comes from the 14th century, during which time both Europeans and Arabs appear to have begun using them. In East Asia, the Koreans acquired knowledge of the hand cannon from China in the 14th century. Japan was already aware of gunpowder warfare but did not mass-produce firearms until 1543, when the Portuguese introduced matchlocks known as tanegashima.Meanwhile, for artillery canons...The first confirmed use of cannon in Europe was in southern Iberia, by the Moors, in the Siege of Cordoba in 1280. By this time, hand guns were probably in use, as scopettieri—&quot;gun bearers&quot;—were mentioned in conjunction with crossbowmen, in 1281. In Iberia, the &quot;first artillery-masters on the Peninsula&quot; were enlisted, at around the same time.So, yes, human-carried guns predate artillery, but artillery followed quickly.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Umbran, post: 6821910, member: 177"] It is questionable that this was really "gun like", insofar as it was not intended for what we think of today as "ranged combat". The projectile was present, but it was used as much or more for the flame-throwing effect it produced. It had a range of a few feet, and was intended to shoot the guy you were about to stab anyway - it is a boost in melee, essentially. To quote a couple of Wikipedia articles: [i]The earliest firearm was "discovered... in Manchuria dating from the 1200s", and the earliest artistic depiction of a hand cannon is a firearm-wielding figure that was found in twelfth-century Sichuan. The earliest reliable evidence of hand cannons in Europe comes from the 14th century, during which time both Europeans and Arabs appear to have begun using them. In East Asia, the Koreans acquired knowledge of the hand cannon from China in the 14th century. Japan was already aware of gunpowder warfare but did not mass-produce firearms until 1543, when the Portuguese introduced matchlocks known as tanegashima.[/i] Meanwhile, for artillery canons... [i]The first confirmed use of cannon in Europe was in southern Iberia, by the Moors, in the Siege of Cordoba in 1280. By this time, hand guns were probably in use, as scopettieri—"gun bearers"—were mentioned in conjunction with crossbowmen, in 1281. In Iberia, the "first artillery-masters on the Peninsula" were enlisted, at around the same time.[/i] So, yes, human-carried guns predate artillery, but artillery followed quickly. [/QUOTE]

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