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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Willie the Duck" data-source="post: 9783875" data-attributes="member: 6799660">I think the character point system 'works best' when it is declared as being an artificial economy meaning you can't take everything and curb any other inferences as much as possible. I feel it works best for introducing a group to the system, and the inevitable min-maxxer showing where it breaks being a solid lesson that the game will only work with gentlepeople's agreement not to do so again. After that, I think character creation proceeds best with players creating genre-appropriate characters (and GM input such as 'if you are an expert at Skill X in this scenario, have a score of 15,' etc.) and ignoring it altogether.Disadvantages in Fate and GURPS do things wildly differently, and each have their pros and cons. <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Obviously the GURPS disadvantages paying you in the same points as discussed above is a limitation. However, the big thing is that their benefit is a lump sum at character creation, and then you are incentivized (excepting that negative consequences generally mean spotlight time) to minimize how often they come up. This is realistic -- if I am epileptic or alcoholic or brontophobic, I want to do whatever I can (barring cures worse than the affliction) to make sure I never have another active episode of this problem. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fate disadvantages (aspects used in the compel format) set up an incentivization system where you want the disadvantage to rear its head (preferably in a situation where it just barely hinders you, of course, but you likely won't be able to engineer that). You don't get fate points if the aspect doesn't come up, and getting the fate points is why you took an aspect where the negative will come up in the first place (aside from making a nuances character, and again spotlight time). This helps create dramatic characters -- as in those that would show up in dramas (although 'dramatic' as in over-the-top is certainly possible). In a fictional narrative, if you even know about a character suffering from something, it likely means it is so it will come up. </li> </ul>For these reasons, I always said that GURPS was better at being a real-world person modelling system, while something like Fate does better at creating a character in a story. Mind you, various other factors (like the general task resolution systems and the like) also impact this.This reminds me of the 2e AD&D AC (with ThAC0, adding and subtracting negative numbers, and exception-based rules) vs. D&D 3e AC (with all-positives, formulaic calculation, but with multiple types of AC that might change frequently in real time) discussions. It all depends on what you think of as being complicated. GURPS does many things in consistent, formulaic ways. It also has many things with massive arrays of options (character building, enemy construction, charts and charts of modifiers) that can be seen as complicated even if each component is formulaic and straightforward. And then, yes, various specifics like grenades or 3rd edition vehicles are just plain unnecessarily complicated subsystems. What they say about the larger system as a whole is another what-do-you-consider-important situation.</blockquote>

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