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Message: <blockquote data-quote="juggerulez" data-source="post: 6734107" data-attributes="member: 98250">I can agree with you to a certain extent. Let me elaborate.At levels 1-3 you don't have chances to exploit bonus attacks unless you can put your hands on a feat and use a particular fighting style.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">2handers (2d6) + gwf averages 2*3.833 damage without BA, there is no BA available</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">reach weapons (1d10) + gwf averages 5.9 damage without BA, there is no BA available</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">two light weapons (1d6) average 1*3.5 without BA, with BA they go up to 2*3.5</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Sword and board (1d8) + duelist averages 6.5, which isn't enough to beat the competition but it ranks 3rd, but mounted combat and lance surely do, averaging at a whopping 8.5 damage!</li> </ul>this is only from dice perspective, which sees TWF second. This means that the "real deal" is all about stacking fixed bonuses.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">2handers will never pop a BA, thus they will win only by increasing their number of swings</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">reach weapons never pop a BA, thus it's more or less like 2handers</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">duelist sword and boards pretty much follow through.</li> </ul>These 3 will never win against TWF because they simply can't double their fixed output. they *could* go on par if the fixed amount provided by stats overmatch the doubled fixed amount provided by TWF but it's a stretch.So I can agree with you up to this point, but since we're filthy power players, let's introduce a single feat! we're humans after all :v<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The TWF duo upgrade to 1d8 plus an extra 1d8, thanks to Dual Wielder, going up to 4.5+4.5 thus whopping 9 avg damage! not bad!</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">2hander has an easy pick with GWM which boosts the output by 10 but imposes a -5 on hit. Let's assume that we're in a condition of Advantage to offset this and the avg damage ramps to 13.25! It gets disqualified, though, because we went to "on hit country" and it offends the judges.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">reach weapons (+GWF) will call for Polearm Master, which introduces a BA of 1d4. So our AVG ramps to 8.65 up to 5.9 (1d4 + GWF averages to 2.75) still not enough tho.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Duelist sword and boards, though, go for a cheap shot, and go for Polearm Master as well! but with a sword!? no! with a quarterstaff! quarterstaff averages at 3.5, with duelist it goes to 5.5. It's BA averages at 2.5+2, which sums up to 10!</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Lance Duelists are still unable to pop a BA, thus they average at 8.5 falling short of half a damage. There are no feats to help the damage output there, so it rests.</li> </ul>But wait! What's that? a min maxer! W-whats he doing? he's using shillelagh as a MC druid? With Polearm Master and duelist?? it's otrageous!1d8+2 + 1d4+2 goes for 11 whopping average damage, becoming King of the Hill <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool    :cool:"  data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" />So as you can see, TWF is just the 3rd best option, 2nd best if you don't allow MC, but since my premisis was:- and I'm a scummy min maxer, I'm compelled to consider everything else behind the "best choice" as "roleplaying" <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/angel.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":angel:" title="Angel    :angel:" data-shortname=":angel:" /></blockquote>

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