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GWM, SS, CEx: updated!
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<blockquote data-quote="ro" data-source="post: 7247808" data-attributes="member: 6890747"><p>Just to recap the DPR effects of the -5/+10 mechanic, here is a table. These calculations use a d10 weapon (avg 5.5 dpr), +4 proficiency bonus, +6 attack bonus (+4 main stat, +2 magic weapon or other buff) against a 17 AC target, for a character having one attack or four attacks. This is a feat, chosen against a +2 ASI.</p><p></p><table style='width: 100%'><tr><td></td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">Hit Chance</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">Dmg/Hit</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">1 Attack</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">w/Adv</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">w/ Disadv</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">4 Attacks</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">w/Adv</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">w/ Disadv</span></span></span><br /> </td></tr><tr><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">Before ASI</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">0.7</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">9.5</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">6.7</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">8.6</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">4.7</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">26.6</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">34.6</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">18.6</span></span></span><br /> </td></tr><tr><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">+2 ASI</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">0.75</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">10.5</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">7.9</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">9.8</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">5.9</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">31.5</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">39.4</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">23.6</span></span></span><br /> </td></tr><tr><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">-5/+10</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">0.45</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">19.5</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">8.8</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">13.6</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">3.9</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">35.1</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">54.4</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">15.8</span></span></span><br /> </td></tr><tr><td></td><td></td><td></td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">-5/+10 on first attack only:</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">28.7</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">39.5</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">17.9</span></span></span><br /> </td><td></td><td></td></tr><tr><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">+4 ASI</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">0.8</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">11.5</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">9.2</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">11.0</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">7.4</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">36.8</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">44.2</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">29.4</span></span></span><br /> </td></tr><tr><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">+8 ASI</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">0.9</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">13.5</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">12.2</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">13.4</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">10.9</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">48.6</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">53.5</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">43.7</span></span></span><br /> </td></tr></table><p></p><p>We see that for normal attacks, the -5/+10 mechanic is equivalent to a <strong>+4 ASI.</strong></p><p>For attacks with advantage, the -5/+10 mechanic is equivalent to a <strong>+8 ASI!</strong></p><p>Note that disadvantage is much less common, and a -5/+10 character can opt not to use that feature in that case.</p><p></p><p>Dropping to once per turn makes it much closer: a big bump for single attack characters, but not so good for four-attack characters.</p><p></p><p>(Remember that the feats in question and +2 ASI all have additional, non-attack/damage benefits. For simplicity, let's assume these roughly balance.)</p><p></p><p>If you prefer the always-on mechanic, I suggest changing -5/+10 to either -2/+3 or -3/+4:</p><p></p><table style='width: 100%'><tr><td></td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">Hit Chance</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">Dmg/Hit</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">1 Attack</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">w/Adv</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">w/ Disadv</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">4 Attacks</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">w/Adv</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">w/ Disadv</span></span></span><br /> </td></tr><tr><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">+2 ASI</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">0.75</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">10.5</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">7.9</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">9.8</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">5.9</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">31.5</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">39.4</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">23.6</span></span></span><br /> </td></tr><tr><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">-2/+3</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">0.6</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">12.5</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">7.5</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">10.5</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">4.7</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">30.0</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">42.0</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">18.6</span></span></span><br /> </td></tr><tr><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">-3/+4</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">0.55</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">13.5</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">7.4</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">10.8</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">4.7</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">29.7</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">43.1</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">18.6</span></span></span><br /> </td></tr><tr><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">-3/+5</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">0.55</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">14.5</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">8.0</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">11.6</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">4.7</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">31.9</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">46.3</span></span></span><br /> </td><td><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #000000">18.6</span></span></span><br /> </td></tr></table><p></p><p>These are not as extremely powerful with advantage but are still solidly better than a stock +2 ASI, but they create the need to choose wisely, as without advantage they are better than no ASI at all, but not as good as a +2 ASI. (Disadvantage numbers come from the no-ASI numbers, which are better.)</p><p></p><p>Going -3/+5 would be strictly better than a +2 ASI even without advantage, but not as overpowered as -5/+10.</p><p></p><p><strong>In summary:</strong></p><p></p><p>Regardless of the desire for a melee fighter to be the best damage dealer of all, a feat should match a +2 ASI. Short of rewriting the feat entirely there are two solutions: <strong>change both GWM and SS to once per turn, or change them to -2/+3 or -3/+4.</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p>Addendum:</p><p></p><p>Crossbow Expert can be modified, too, such as dropping the disadvantage-cancellation in melee to once per turn (helping only single-attackers). This will make the crazy combos much less potent. You could also specify that the bonus action crossbow must be a different crossbow.<p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Crossbow Expert</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Thanks to extensive practice with the crossbow, you gain the following benefits: </p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">- You ignore the loading quality of crossbows with which you are proficient. </p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">- Once per turn, being within 5 feet of a hostile creature doesn’t impose disadvantage on your ranged attack rolls. </p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">- When you use the Attack action and attack with a one handed weapon, you can use a bonus action to attack with a hand crossbow you are holding in your other hand.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ro, post: 7247808, member: 6890747"] Just to recap the DPR effects of the -5/+10 mechanic, here is a table. These calculations use a d10 weapon (avg 5.5 dpr), +4 proficiency bonus, +6 attack bonus (+4 main stat, +2 magic weapon or other buff) against a 17 AC target, for a character having one attack or four attacks. This is a feat, chosen against a +2 ASI. [TABLE="width: 676"] [TR] [TD="width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD] [TD="width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]Hit Chance[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]Dmg/Hit[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]1 Attack[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]w/Adv[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]w/ Disadv[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]4 Attacks[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]w/Adv[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]w/ Disadv[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="bgcolor: transparent"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]Before ASI[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]0.7[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]9.5[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]6.7[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]8.6[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]4.7[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]26.6[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]34.6[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]18.6[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="bgcolor: transparent"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]+2 ASI[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]0.75[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]10.5[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]7.9[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]9.8[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]5.9[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]31.5[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]39.4[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]23.6[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="bgcolor: transparent"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]-5/+10[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]0.45[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]19.5[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]8.8[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]13.6[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]3.9[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]35.1[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]54.4[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]15.8[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="bgcolor: transparent"][/TD] [TD="bgcolor: transparent"][/TD] [TD="bgcolor: transparent"][/TD] [TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent, colspan: 3"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]-5/+10 on first attack only:[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]28.7[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]39.5[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]17.9[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="bgcolor: transparent"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]+4 ASI[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]0.8[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]11.5[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]9.2[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]11.0[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]7.4[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]36.8[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]44.2[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]29.4[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="bgcolor: transparent"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]+8 ASI[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]0.9[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]13.5[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]12.2[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]13.4[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]10.9[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]48.6[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]53.5[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]43.7[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] We see that for normal attacks, the -5/+10 mechanic is equivalent to a [B]+4 ASI.[/B] For attacks with advantage, the -5/+10 mechanic is equivalent to a [B]+8 ASI![/B] Note that disadvantage is much less common, and a -5/+10 character can opt not to use that feature in that case. Dropping to once per turn makes it much closer: a big bump for single attack characters, but not so good for four-attack characters. (Remember that the feats in question and +2 ASI all have additional, non-attack/damage benefits. For simplicity, let's assume these roughly balance.) If you prefer the always-on mechanic, I suggest changing -5/+10 to either -2/+3 or -3/+4: [TABLE="width: 676"] [TR] [TD="width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD] [TD="width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]Hit Chance[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]Dmg/Hit[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]1 Attack[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]w/Adv[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]w/ Disadv[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]4 Attacks[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]w/Adv[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]w/ Disadv[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="bgcolor: transparent"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]+2 ASI[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]0.75[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]10.5[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]7.9[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]9.8[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]5.9[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]31.5[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]39.4[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]23.6[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="bgcolor: transparent"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]-2/+3[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]0.6[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]12.5[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]7.5[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]10.5[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]4.7[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]30.0[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]42.0[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]18.6[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="bgcolor: transparent"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]-3/+4[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]0.55[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]13.5[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]7.4[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]10.8[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]4.7[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]29.7[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]43.1[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]18.6[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="bgcolor: transparent"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]-3/+5[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]0.55[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]14.5[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]8.0[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]11.6[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]4.7[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]31.9[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]46.3[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]18.6[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] These are not as extremely powerful with advantage but are still solidly better than a stock +2 ASI, but they create the need to choose wisely, as without advantage they are better than no ASI at all, but not as good as a +2 ASI. (Disadvantage numbers come from the no-ASI numbers, which are better.) Going -3/+5 would be strictly better than a +2 ASI even without advantage, but not as overpowered as -5/+10. [B]In summary:[/B] Regardless of the desire for a melee fighter to be the best damage dealer of all, a feat should match a +2 ASI. Short of rewriting the feat entirely there are two solutions: [B]change both GWM and SS to once per turn, or change them to -2/+3 or -3/+4. [/B] Addendum: Crossbow Expert can be modified, too, such as dropping the disadvantage-cancellation in melee to once per turn (helping only single-attackers). This will make the crazy combos much less potent. You could also specify that the bonus action crossbow must be a different crossbow.[INDENT] Crossbow Expert[/INDENT] [INDENT]Thanks to extensive practice with the crossbow, you gain the following benefits: - You ignore the loading quality of crossbows with which you are proficient. - Once per turn, being within 5 feet of a hostile creature doesn’t impose disadvantage on your ranged attack rolls. - When you use the Attack action and attack with a one handed weapon, you can use a bonus action to attack with a hand crossbow you are holding in your other hand.[/INDENT] [/QUOTE]
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