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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Votan" data-source="post: 2883233" data-attributes="member: 18680">Assuming that you are playing a melee class (and, for a moment let us ignore the Human) and this class is not the Paladin (if see the human becoms non-ignorable), then consider:Half Elf • Half-elf base land speed is 30 feet.• Immunity to sleep spells and similar magical effects, and a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against enchantment spells or effects.• Low-Light Vision• +1 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks.• +2 racial bonus on Diplomacy and Gather Information checks.• Elven Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-elf is considered an elf.• Automatic Languages: Common and Elven.• Favored Class: Any. Dwarf • +2 Constitution, –2 Charisma.• Medium: As Medium creatures, dwarves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.• Dwarf base land speed is 20 feet. However, dwarves can move at this speed even when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load (unlike other creatures, whose speed is reduced in such situations).• Darkvision: Dwarves can see in the dark up to 60 feet. • Stonecunning: This ability grants a dwarf a +2 racial bonus on Search checks to notice unusual stonework.• Weapon Familiarity: Dwarves may treat dwarven waraxes and dwarven urgroshes as martial weapons, rather than exotic weapons.• Stability: A dwarf gains a +4 bonus on ability checks made to resist being bull rushed or tripped when standing on the ground (but not when climbing, flying, riding, or otherwise not standing firmly on the ground).• +2 racial bonus on saving throws against poison.• +2 racial bonus on saving throws against spells and spell-like effects.• +1 racial bonus on attack rolls against orcs and goblinoids.• +4 dodge bonus to Armor Class against monsters of the giant type. • +2 racial bonus on Appraise checks that are related to stone or metal items.• +2 racial bonus on Craft checks that are related to stone or metal.• Automatic Languages: Common and Dwarven. • Favored Class: Fighter. People make a big deal out of skill bonuses for the Half-Elf.  Dwarf: +2 craft, +2 appraise +2 search (situational) = +6Half Elf: +1 search, +1 spot, +1 listen, +2 Diplomacy, +2 Gather Information = +7[Neither really stands out as being ideally allocated.  I like the Half Elves bonuses better but jeepers this is close]Now Saving throws:Dwarf: +2 vs all spells, +1 vs. poisonHalf-Elf: +2 vs. enchantment spells and immunity to sleep[Seriously, these bonuses are not even close -- the Dwarf has everything that the half-elf has in terms of resistance to magic but he also resists all other spells as well]Vision:Dwarf: DarkvisionHalf-Elf: Low light vision[Clear advantage to the race that can easily see in complete darkness]Stats Mods:Dwarf: +2 Con (important for warrior), -2 Cha (usually less important)Half-Elf: Nothing[I am trying to think of a non-Paladin example where the Dwarf is worse off as a melee character than the Half-elf with these mods.  All I can come up with are places where the Dwarf is way better.Consider 2 elite array fighters:Half Elf:  Str 15 Dex 12 Con 14 Int 13 Wis 10 Cha 8Dwarf:    Str 15 Dex 12 Con 16 Int 13 Wis 8 Cha 8Now remember the Dwarf has +2 on all saves vs. spells and think of a will save that is not a spell; also could go with 6 CHA -- I think that 16 con will be appreciated]]Blood is dwarf blood vs. Elven blood (push)Speed: Curiously, both move 20 ft im medium or heavy armor.  Minimal advantage to Half Elf as melee classes will never wander around in light or no armor in most situations.  Other bonuses:Dwarf: +4 stability (trip!), +1 attacks vs. Orcs and Goblins, +4 dodge vs. Giants, weapon familarityHalf-Elf: Favored Class (any)Now, I could pick Half-Elf as a melee class if I wanted an elf, wanted a fighter and did not want a CON penalty.  But what are the circumstances where a Dwarf isn't a mechanically better choice? It's logically possible to come up with scenarios, but they are in the minority, in my opinion.  The Dwarf has a favorable stat mod for a usually unrequired one, better saves, almsot the same skill mods, same overall move in armor, better vision and a whole series of combat bonuses.  I suspect that the trip bonus (stability) will show up more often than any niche bonus that a Half-Elf advocate could come up with.  This leaves only favored class: any.  I am not really all that this matters for 2 reasons:1) This might be the msot houseruled thing I have ever encountered (a side point but one worth making)2) It's actually hard to come up with a good multi-class combination that can't be made with the dwarf using most standard books.  The only ones that I could come up with were combinations like:  Fighter 2/Ranger 2/Barbarian X and  Fighter 2/Hexblade 2/Barbarian X.  But, Barbarian 2/Ranger 2/Fighter X is a valid choice and doesn't reek of mechanical weakness compared to the above.  Plus, after about level 6, prestige classes become an option and these often make these clonsiderations moot.  So Half-Elf= melee class is probably an issue of roleplaying only.  Not that it can't work (it can) but there is no "mechanical" reason to do it.</blockquote>

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