Half-Golems...wha?

[DWARF]

Alright, according to the Web-Enhancement for the MM2, the whole point that half-golems began were as an economical way for the poor to afford replacement limbs, since divine magic is too expensive.

Wait a tick here... The cheapest half-golem type is 10,000 Gp. Not exactly an "economical replacement for expensive regenerative magic", especially considering that the level-7 spell "Regeneration" would cost 70 x casters level, which would make it 910 Gp.

So what gives? Perhaps they originally set-up the half-golems as cheap replacement limbs, but then went nuts on the ability's a half-golem gets, like +11 natural armor, etc. Then, to "balance" it, they jacked up the price.

So great, now evil spellcasters have a way of creating super-monsters bent on evil. If that was the ultimate intention of the creators of this template, why not leave it at that? I guess it comes down ultimately to the apparently sacred 3E idea of "balance". Sure some expouse how important it is, but I for one don't find it very realistic. I've considered running a campaign with a few of my good roleplaying players; no character level adjustments, etc. Want to play a half-celestial? Great, start them at level one with everyone else, full ability's. "*GASP* You can't actually concieve of that! It'll be SO unbalanced! There will be characters that are more powerful than others!!! ACK!"

I guess my beef is that I prefer a more realistic game than one based on complete balance, and I really hate to see an attempt at an interesting system greatly changed or ruined because it has to be balanced. Spend 4000 Gold, get +2 to an ability score.

Bah!

 

[I'm A Banana]

*shrug*

If you and your players don't care about balance, throw it out the window. The goal is to have fun, after all....

But I'm not sure *I'd* have fun where I was a first level human, and my buddy was a first level Tarrasque who could do everything I could do *and* level cities, too....

Maybe for fun his partner is a first level Hag with Polymorph Other, so he can fit down into dungeons.

I wouldn't want to DM for something like that, either...thinking of ways not to gyp the player of the monster while still making sure the player of the "mundane" has a chance to shine...and not saying "sorry, inappropriate! play a different character!" because (IMHO) that's just a cop-out for a DM who doesn't want to deal with actually working with what they have.

They idea of balance is a *very* important one, *especially* from an initial design standpoint. Not everyone is going to want to play "realistically." It's important to provide a decently constructed baseline from which you are more than free to deviate.

 

[Kamard]

I had the Half-Celestial template set at +2, and Lycanthrope (Wererat) set at +2.

So when I had a party make fourth level characters, two chose monks, one half-celestial, the other a wererat.

And the wererat was totally untouchable by the enemies, and the half-celestial had scores in the low stratosphere, so much so that he chose to take away some of his abilities so the game would, quote, "be fun again", end quote.

Balance is an issue, but its not the only issue, and I could have found ways around either of those uber-PC's powers.

 

[DWARF]

I just look at how "balanced" a lot of the literature is. Trure, the literature is not a game, but I'm trying to design a campaign that's base more on rolplaying and relationships than straight combat.

I mean, how "balanced" was the fellowship of the ring when they set off?

 

[Kamard]

Hey, I will give you that. But you need to look to see if all the players are having fun. If they don't mind that one PC is a phenomenally powerful wizard, while they are lucky to be able to hit people once in a while with their fancy stick, more power to you and your gamers. But I know I get incredibly jealous when I feel like my character isn't nearly as powerful as Fighter Joe's.

 

[rounser]

Want to play a half-celestial? Great, start them at level one with everyone else, full ability's. "*GASP* You can't actually concieve of that! It'll be SO unbalanced! There will be characters that are more powerful than others!!! ACK!"

Sounds a bit like "game balance", Rifts stylee...

 

[Zappo]

I mean, how "balanced" was the fellowship of the ring when they set off?

I didn't see any of the hobbits having much fun for most of the trip.

In any case, does 3e's obsession for balance annoy you? Ignore it. The ECLs can be varied to whatever you feel like; you can use point buy and assign more points to one player if you wish; you can have a player start one level higher or ten if you feel inclined to do so. You can tell people to choose stats, race and levels arbitrarily for that matter. Since you don't have to change a comma of the rules or waste any more time than what it takes to say it, to do any of that, I frankly don't see what's the problem.

OTOH, there are numerous people who do care about balance and who find all the handy mechanisms 3e provides very useful. Since without them, nothing would change for you and much would change for me, they objectively are a Good Thing (TM).

 

[Storm Raven]

I just look at how "balanced" a lot of the literature is. Trure, the literature is not a game, but I'm trying to design a campaign that's base more on rolplaying and relationships than straight combat.

I mean, how "balanced" was the fellowship of the ring when they set off?

People who write fantasy literature aren't concerned with whether or not everyone in the group of protagonists has an enjoyable time, or whether they will share the spotlight. The wide power disparity in the Fellowship of the Ring is fine for a piece of literature where the various members of the group are subject to the whims of the author, but not so much fun to play in an FRPG.

 

[Gez]

There's balance and balance.

Balance between the party member is, IMHO, a good thing and should be kept. No need to be too heavy handed there, but I would not allow someone to play a celestial ogre mage, even a commoner one, in a 1st-level party.

Balance in world design can get wacky. That's how you have 100 big castle and 15000 houses in a 30000-people town (plus the billions and billions of chicken).

That's also how you have "economic replacements" of divine magic that are 1000 times as expensive than divine magic.

They should rather have taken a flavor text along the line of "half-golems are the result of insane experiments to create armies of magically augmented warriors". Or something like that.

 

[Balgus]

when i first saw half golems, i thought of the arm of Nyr from DotF. It is only 2000 Gp and +2 str and +2 deflection bonus. Being a local oaf became so much easier with this arm.

another take is that Half golems were cheap when it stareted out- using random scraps of metal from old shovels and such to build the arm. Then, as the materials and technologo got more intricate, they rose in price. Now they use iron, mithril and adamantine to build their golems. And with the special materials, the abilities got a little better because the mechanics work better and more fluently.

*shrug*

but the idea of having a half machine is just a little too... anachronistic in a medieval world. it is almost as funny as the chainsaw for a hand in "Army of Darkness" ... and *snicker* when he *giggle* busted out his chemistry BOOK *laugh* to make gunpowder... BWAHAHAHAHAHAAH