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<blockquote data-quote="Spatula" data-source="post: 995051" data-attributes="member: 2198">Then you must be doing something wrong.&nbsp; The half-ogre has everything the half-orc does, plus:* +4 STR* +2 CON* -2 DEX* +4 natural armor* Large size* 10' reach* Better weapons* Total immunity to many Enchantment spells* Armor costs 2xNow, if you want to compare a half-ogre Barbarian 1 to a half-orc Barbarian 2, then the half-ogre is also behind a level.&nbsp; It's still a steal for the half-ogre.The half-ogre has a net +2 to AC over the half-orc (+4 natural, -1 dex mod, -1 size).Well, then you are doing something wrong.&nbsp; Let's see what other benefits you get:* +4 to grapple checks from size, + more from strength.* larger weapons means +4 or more to disarm checks* massive strength and weapon damage makes sundering a snap!&nbsp; Conversely, your larger weapons are less vulnerable to sundering (more hp).* you can use combat manuevers that provoke AoOs from 10' away, thereby not provoking the AoO as the target does not threaten you. (disarm, sunder, etc.)* opponents without reach can't close for melee without provoking AoO (barring tumble or spring attack).* you can hit creatures that have 10' reach themselves in melee without provoking an AoO.* having reach means that you can neutralize archers by getting in their face - they can't do the 5'-step-and-fire without provoking an AoO.* that applies to spellcasters, too! (although they can attmpt to cast defensively - in which case you grapple them!)That's off the top of my head.&nbsp; I'm probably forgetting something, though.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Spatula, post: 995051, member: 2198"] Then you must be doing something wrong. The half-ogre has everything the half-orc does, [b]plus[/b]: * +4 STR * +2 CON * -2 DEX * +4 natural armor * Large size * 10' reach * Better weapons * Total immunity to many Enchantment spells * Armor costs 2x Now, if you want to compare a half-ogre Barbarian 1 to a half-orc Barbarian [b]2[/b], then the half-ogre is also behind a level. It's still a steal for the half-ogre.The half-ogre has a net +2 to AC over the half-orc (+4 natural, -1 dex mod, -1 size).Well, then you [b]are[/b] doing something wrong. Let's see what other benefits you get: * +4 to grapple checks from size, + more from strength. * larger weapons means +4 or more to disarm checks * massive strength and weapon damage makes sundering a snap! Conversely, your larger weapons are less vulnerable to sundering (more hp). * you can use combat manuevers that provoke AoOs from 10' away, thereby not provoking the AoO as the target does not threaten you. (disarm, sunder, etc.) * opponents without reach can't close for melee without provoking AoO (barring tumble or spring attack). * you can hit creatures that have 10' reach themselves in melee without provoking an AoO. * having reach means that you can neutralize archers by getting in their face - they can't do the 5'-step-and-fire without provoking an AoO. * that applies to spellcasters, too! (although they can attmpt to cast defensively - in which case you grapple them!) That's off the top of my head. I'm probably forgetting something, though. [/QUOTE]

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