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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Pax" data-source="post: 1673936" data-attributes="member: 6875">We're not talkign about rolling a straight 18.  We're talking about being able to have the 18 after racial modifiers, which means only have a 16 or higher to start with.  And inmy experience, only the rankest newbies (in terms of using point buy), and dedicated spellcasters, buy 18's with the DMG standard scale.  14's and maybe the occasional 16, yes.  18's?  Almost never ... it's just not worth it.  ... but not neccessarily worth more than the +1 to hit at ranged, +1 to AC (including +1 to touch AC), +1 to initiative, and +1 to reflex saves that Elves and Halflings enjoy.  Or the +1hp/level and +1 fortitude saves that dwarves and gnomes enjoy. If you'd said "barbarian" instead of "fighter", I'd agree.  But a surprising number of Fighter-oriented feats require Combat Expertise, which means, anIntelligence of 13+.  And a shocking number of Fighter-oriented Prestige Classes require not-insignificant-for-Fighters investments of skill points - which, of course, are directly affected by a penalty to Intelligence.  Adding the Charisma penalty on top of theIntelligence penalty, is just plain unfair.  I could swallow a -4 Charisma penalty easier than -2 to eachof intelligence and charisma. And the -1 effective skill point is going to come into play every time the opportunity to use skills comes up (which happens both in and out of combat).  Oh, gee, an extra 10' of movement.  Unless you wear more than light armor, of course, in which case, you're notmoving any fasterthanthe Dwarf after all.  No argument there.  They should get to pick EITHER the bonus feat OR the bonus skill point of their human parent, IMO.  But that doesn't mean the HalfOrc isn't also behind the curve.</blockquote>

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