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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ilbranteloth" data-source="post: 6351423" data-attributes="member: 6778044">Excellent question. And that entire quote is important:If you are hidden - both unseen and unheard - when you make an attack, you give away your location when an attack hits or misses.What that doesn't say is whether 'giving away your location' eliminates your advantage when making an attack, or the disadvantage and attacker suffers when attempting to attack you.So I think we should look at your first statement, what being 'Hidden' actually does for you. I think that perhaps it should be a new thread (with a link to this one), since this one was to answer a specific question. To answer that question I think it would be beneficial to identify the benefits the halfling would receive. On the other hand, I think that according to the rules as written the original question is correct as interpreted except for the -2 to attack.Having said that, in my view this benefit is circumstantial. The reason I say that is that my mind requires some sort of mechanic to make it work. OK, the halfling can attempt to hide.But there's the halfling and his human fighter as the only two people in the room. Whether the halfling starts out hidden, then attacks, or starts out seen, then runs behind the fighter, the end result is that the opponent knows where you are, or at least thinks it very likely that he knows where you are, and is expecting an attack from you from behind the fighter.To me, the mechanic that provides your hiding place in this instance is cover. You are entirely behind the fighter (as you'd have to be to remain unseen) and therefore in total cover. You could also say he is heavily obscured.In order to attack when completely behind physical cover (the fighter) you have to reveal yourself. If the opponent doesn't know where you are at all, then I think when you reveal yourself you still have advantage on that attack. Once they know where you are, then when you reveal yourself to attack you are seen, therefore not 'unseen and unheard' and thus don't receive advantage on your attacks until the circumstance changes.That's why I think your position, or more importantly your opponent's perception of your position is important.So for the bigger question, what benefit do you get from being Hidden? There are actually quite a few, and they aren't all combat related. I guess you could say these are a lot of different but related conditions. I don't have time to go through all of my thoughts right now but I'll get it started:1. Undetected. That is, you enter the range of Perception of somebody and you are able to do so without them even knowing you are there. This would give you advantage on your first attack, might cause the opponent to have disadvantage to attack you, and other conditions may or may not apply (cover, obscured, etc.).For example, if you're sneaking across a room 'in plain sight' but undetected you would gain advantage on your first attack. At that point your opponent wouldn't suffer any penalty to hit you because you have been seen.However, if you're trying to sneak around behind a large sofa, and make a noise, you are no longer undetected, but you do have full cover. If you choose to reveal yourself you would not gain advantage to your attack, but you would have the benefit of at least half cover.If you come around the corner in a dark hallway and can see into a lighted room, but remain in shadow yourself you are undetected until you fire your first arrow. At that point you still have advantage when attacking, and they are at a disadvantage when attacking you. But your advantage in attacking is limited since they can determine where to move or where to take cover to avoid being hit by somebody down the hallway. It could also be argued that unless you are magically silenced, they can hear you in which case you no longer have advantage on attack since you are not 'unseen and unheard.' I also think that once you have been discovered, either through action or a failed Stealth/Perception check, the circumstances would need to change before you could possibly be undetected again.Hiding in a crowd is another possibility for being undetected. You aren't unseen or unheard, but your threat to the opponent is undetected. This could be a Deception instead of a Stealth check.The advantages to being undetected aren't just combat, though. They include things like escaping, stealing something, planting something incriminating, etc.More later!Randy</blockquote>

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