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Message: <blockquote data-quote="TDarien" data-source="post: 6351430">I agree except for the deduction part.  If can deduce where you are, but that doesn't mean you're not still hidden.</blockquote> I'm going to argue that your allies indicating where an hidden creature is does NOT stop the creature from being hidden from view. It's the same as deducing that creatures position, you'd still can't observe it directly, therefore it's still hidden. It doesn't automatically succeed, because Perception is the ability to observe you directly.  Knowledge of your position does not improve a creatures ability to observe you.If I duck behind a wall and don't make a noise, you can't be sure if I'm still there or I moved without some other evidence.This is where you're getting it wrong. Hiding is not connected to movement at all.  Moving Stealthily requires hiding (and NOT the other way around), yes, but the hide action does not require movement ("When you take the hide action, you make a Dexterity (Stealth) check in an attempt to hide, following the rules in Chapter 7 for hiding")-- the False Appearance ability you quoted earlier supports that.This is a change in the rules from previous editions, which is where the confusion might be coming fromI don't think that you can infer from that your position being discovered supports you not being able to hide again.  You seem to think that being discovered = not hiding, and that's not true.  Both of those things just end your attempt to hide.  Not hiding means you're not actively concealing yourself, while being discovered means that you were unsuccessful in concealing yourself.  You also can't infer from the sentence "If you make a noise, you give away your position" means you can't attempt to hide again, but in the very next sentence, it says "an invisible creature...can always try to hide" even if its position is known. This supports the notion that the requirements to hide are only that a creature can't see or hear you.Attacking Specifically gives away your position, hitting or missing is irrelevant ("If you are hidden—both unseen and unheard—when you make an attack, you give away your location when the attack hits or misses.")   This is 100% DM fiat, and not supported at all by the rules.  (Which isn't to say I wouldn't allow it)Technically becoming partially visible does negate the advantage from being hidden ("if you come out of hiding...it usually sees  you"), but I would allow a creature to shoot from behind a wall (total cover) an retain the advantage from being hidden. ("Under certain circumstances the DM might allow you to stay hidden...")The rules don't support "Popping out" from behind cover, you technically have to move to a position where you can see your target.  Again, I would allow it in some circumstances.I think you're bringing a lot of concepts of "how things should work" into the discussion, which is fine, but those things don't necessarily agree with the rules. Let's clear a few things up- Hiding is the act of actively trying to conceal yourself (your position) from others (Hide action, pg. 72)- In combat, hiding takes an action.  You can't make a stealth check in combat without using the hide action. (hide action p. 72)- If you don't hide, enemies know your position, even if they can't see you. (Hiding "In Combat, most creatures stay alert..." p 60)- a Creature knows the position of every creature that's not hidden from it. (same)- You can only hide from a target that can't see you or hear you- Hiding is the act of concealing your position  (Stealth, page 60-- not the hide box)- When you try to hide, creatures get a passive perception check to find you.  An active perception check takes an action (Search Action, pg 72)- Once you're hidden, The enemy can no longer be sure of your position, because it has no direct evidence of it.  It knew where it last saw you, (which could very well be where you still are), but since you're hidden, you can move without it noticing. - If an enemy gets direct evidence of your position, passes a perception check(shadow, sound, glimpse, etc.) or sees you directly, you are no longer hidden from that enemy.  He his again fully aware of his position in exactly the same way as he did before you hid.[/QUOTE]

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