Handling deviations from the main plot (3.5E version) **spoilers**

[valn99]

Hey!

I'll start by saying that I've very much enjoyed DMing the campaign so far and that my players are very happy with the adventures and motivated more than ever in kicking some Ragesian behinds! We're starting the 3rd module (Shelter from the Storm) this Friday. I would I liked to use the 4E adventures, but most of my players still prefer the 3.5 edition.

My players are not only good role-players, but they also enjoy dealing with situations in unconventional ways.


I couldn't find how to generate that nice little spoiler box, so I'll leave some space just in case...

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For example, in adventure one (Scouring of GatePass), the PCs negociated with the Shaalesti spies for the content of the case. Basically, they told the elves could keep it if they were allowed to copy some of the documents. The elves eventually agreed, but only gave them a few hours. The PCs copied as much as they could (using a cantrip to copy some of the more complicated pages, but mostly by hand). The Rogue even falsified a few pages and kept the originals for them!

Now the imp was watching them and knows that something took place, but in the end, Shealis left with the case, so it chose to follow her. It did report back on the PC though.

I'm not sure how Shealis would have made the trip back to Shaalesti, what kind of support she would have had.

If Shealis made it back safely, that means Shaalesti has all the documents in their possession. But perhaps they will be more inclined to trust the PCs and Seaquen.

If Shealis didn't make it back, or lost the case, that means the ennemies of Ragesia have only half the documents at best. Shaalesti may, or may not know that the PCs have copied part of the case.

During adventure two (The Indomitable Fire Forest of Innenotdar), Kazyk stalked the killers of Boreus and his men. Once he met and fought with them on the Elfroad, he knew that the group were the same the Imp had described. He wasn't sure if they had any document, since they obviously weren't carrying the case, but the PCs tried (poorly) to bluff him, then he just knew they had *something*.

He made his offer as they walked back from meeting Nelle. Again, they wouldn't admit they had the documents (though they debated and discussed many possible solutions, once Kazyk had left).

Kazyk made his final appearance during the closing act of adventure 2, as he joined with Deception in trying to kill off the seela singers. As the devil was about to teleport away, he was wounded down to exactly zero hp! Strictly speaking, this means he would appear at his destination at -1 and dying. I don't think I want to bring back Kazyk again. Even if someone is present when the devil teleports and manages to stabilize him, I don't know if Guthwulf would be pleased with his servant. Kazyk has no proof the PCs are actually carrying any documents, but did manage (indirectly) to extinguish the fire forest.

I welcome any suggestions on handling those "loose ends". I haven't had time to read all the modules yet, so I don't exactly know if any of those plots are used in the next modules.

OH and I have two unrelated questions.
I noticed that the Eladrin in Anyariel's shrine is "elven-like" in appearance, female, carries a greatsword. That made me think of Anyariel herself, as if she had been reborn by some God. Was that intentional?

Final question: is Tiljann needed for adventure 3 or 4? It's not that I don't like her. But the party already has a lot of NPCs (Torrent, Haddin, Crystin... and for most of the adventure, that fire-cursed mage they picked up along the Elfroad). I wouldn't mind leaving her in Innenotdar, if only for a while! During the final battle, Paupavin (the seela leader) was killed and I figure that perhaps Tiljann could take his place.

Thanks for any help!


dan

 

[merchantsteve]

These are my .02. Remember the WotBS is your saga now!

Here's how the 4e adventures tie up some loose ends

1) Shealis takes the case to Shahalesti (one possibility) gives it to an Eladrin Wizard for study and he eventually sends it with Shalosha in Adventure 3. Simeon receives it. The 4e module mentions a tunnel made into the underrealm of Gate Pass that she uses to escape. This 'Singing Chasm' may have some relevance in Adventure 9, but I originally designed it as a sandbox location for further adventures after the war's end.

2) Tiljann leaves the heroes in Adventure 3 to find Etinifi. She studies under the Wayfarers for a little while before going offstage until later adventures. Having her take over Papuvin's leadership is a good way to shuttle her off.

3) Torrent has an affair with a ranger in Adventure 3, and travels to Shahalesti on a mission from Simeon. The ranger shows up again in Adventure 5.

4) Crystin has visions that move her towards taking on Laurabec's mission to build a pantheist temple and hangs around Seaquen.

5) Haddin really likes Seaquen - in a Jack-the-Ripper kind of way. He becomes interested in mixing Necromancy and Biomancy in ways that make Paragim Dogwood look amateurish. I have ideas for him in the later episodes of the saga.

Clarification
The Statue in the shrine is one of Anyariel. Timbre made it in memoriam and left a lock of Anyariel's hair in the shrine that was later taken by Gwenvere
The Eladrin is a Guardian sent in response to Bhurisrava's final prayer before he died. He wanted to make sure the evidence was protected.

I'd Kill Kazyk - or send him back to his home in the nine hells. There is so much more story to run and he is not hyper-critical.

 

[valn99]

Wow that was fast!
Thanks Steve!

I know I can modify it any way I want, but sometimes, it's good to have input from others, if only to surprise my players.

dan

 

[kumagroo]

Yes, I agree that it's good to get some feedback on this. My PC's have a "No extra baggage" policy: No Crystin, No Haddin, No Torrent. For managing combat and other DM duties, it's great, but looking ahead to the Shelter adventure, I can't help but feel that the players are missing a lot without these NPC's. Hopefully, Steve, your plans for the NPC's in the future aren't key to the primary plot. My group really just wants to remain a 5-band group with no outside (DM-based) help. I'm partial to agreeing that recurring NPC's are important but that companion characters shouldn't be encouraged unless the DM really wants one.

 

[merchantsteve]

The extra characters pop in and out but are not central to the heroes' activities. Fear not, I am very sensitive to making sure that the heroes get center stage, though an encounter may have them in a supplemental role (remember Flaganus Mortus). Wait till you see what happens to Balan the diplomat in Adventure 4!

 

[valn99]

I also wouldn't mind "trimming" the party of all the extra NPCs.
I don't think they're bad or anything, but I like to leave as much space as possible for my players to shine.

Oh, I have another question about adventure 3 (Shelter from the Storm). Not sure if it's the same in the 4E version. I've been trying to figure out Lee Sidoneth's motivation. It says he was Torrent's mentor and is well trusted by the Liceum. So... what bits am I missing? Why does he turn against Seaquen?

Thanks!


dan

 

[RangerWickett]

Oh, I have another question about adventure 3 (Shelter from the Storm). Not sure if it's the same in the 4E version. I've been trying to figure out Lee Sidoneth's motivation. It says he was Torrent's mentor and is well trusted by the Liceum. So... what bits am I missing? Why does he turn against Seaquen?

Thanks!


dan

This was my answer to the question back in 3.5 land. It may change with 4e.


[sblock]Lee is an elemental-themed magic-user who is also a monk, so he's not working with Ragesia; he's working with Pilus. Let's assume Pilus visited Seaquen once a few years back and met Lee, then slowly turned the man to be loyal to him.

So then the war begins, and Pilus, who has close to having The Tempest leviathan airship ready, begins to worry that Ragesia will come a-knockin'. Pilus decides to feign an alliance with Ragesia. He wants to lull Leska into not viewing him as an enemy until he has The Tempest fully armed and operational.

Once his superweapon is ready, and he has Onamdammin's armies on his side, Pilus expects to be able to crush Ragesia, and then cripple the other nations so that no one is strong enough to rule it all. Balance through destruction.

(He'll destroy Ostalin too, but Onamdammin doesn't know that. Pilus lies a lot, and he's convinced Onamdammin that in the war's aftermath, Ostalin will be the only nation left standing.)

Ragesia starts to think Seaquen might be a problem, but they can't get down there, so they talk to Pilus. He agrees to help them with their problem, and somehow smuggles the hurricane orb to Lee. He tells Lee that Seaquen is a threat to their goals, and since Pilus is so damned charming, Lee listens to him and betrays his city. And because he's a fairly wise guy, Lee knows not to half-ass it and let his emotions get in the way, which is why he doesn't even warn his friends or student Torrent.

The Ragesian plan is two-pronged. They really want the hurricane to succeed and wipe out Seaquen, so they want to make sure the mages in charge of Lyceum aren't in any condition to stop them, hence the Wayfarer assassination plot. So while Ragesian inquisitors, some soldiers, and a succubus take up residence in the flooded ruins and lava tunnels, Lee enlists a second front.

First he convinces Giorgio to help him betray the Wayfarers and the Lyceum mages. Then he gets the two half-orc brothers from Ragesia -- Brutus and Setales -- to contact the witches and get the Tidereaver's Tears, so that the assassins won't get killed by the hurricane. Then, when the Shahalesti fleet shows up, he sees an opportunity to cause more havoc. He gets Paradim Dogwood the biomancer to mock up fake bodies to pin the blame for the assassination on the Shahalesti.

He does all this to trick Seaquen's defenders into not noticing the real plot, which is to destroy everyone with the hurricane.[/sblock]

Clear enough?

 

[valn99]

Ah! Yes, it does make sense now.
I hadn't considered that he might be working for "him" instead.
Thanks Ryan!


dan