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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 2159217" data-attributes="member: 2011">You ignored the Ghost Sound (or Ventriloquism) example.What is the translucent outline of an audible component?And how do you interact with an audible only component spell like Ghost Sound or Ventriloquism? By listening to it? If that is interacting, then why is not the Hobgoblins just looking at your Illusionary Fogbank not interacting with it???Or, how about Illusory Wall?"Touch or a probing search reveals the true nature of the surface, though such measures do not cause the illusion to disappear."What does this mean? Does the wall become translucent or not to someone who makes the save? Can he see through a 6th level Permanent Image saved against, but not through a 4th level Illusory Wall saved against?How about Mirror Image? Throw a large net over the caster and his images and it should automatically pass through the images and let you know which is which, right? How about using a Web spell against the caster? Shouldn't the web pass straight through the Mirror Images and instantly reveal them???Are you claiming that discussing BAD rules on a rules forum is not valid???Visual Figments (with the exception of Mirror Image which does not allow a save) are basically worthless at close range in 3.5.PC: "I slightly push against the wall with my sword."DM: "Ok, your sword goes through the wall, you automatically save versus the Figment, and you now see a translucent outline of the Figment."PC: "Cool. What is beyond the illusionary wall?"Any Search check where you touch the object you are searching AUTOMATICALLY results in getting past any Figment illusion with a save in 3.5 (which is all of them except Mirror Image I think).Figments do not have touch components. Hence, you can push right through them if they have a visual component and automatically save every single time. In fact, you cannot feel them because they do not have touch (or texture) components.Figment Illusions are totally worthless in 3.5 except at range where you cannot interact with them. Or can you? Remember those audible only Figments like Ghost Sound.You can even overcome Mislead, a 6th level spell, by merely touching the Figment and having it poof into a translucent outline for you and everyone who sees your arm go through it. Ditto for 6th level spells like Programmed Illusion and Permanent Illusion. They can easily be overcome merely by touching them.And how does regular light work with regard to a figment? You have a figment of a wall between two rooms, one room lit (A) and the other totally dark (B). One character in room B knows that it is a figment, so he sees the light streaming into room B from room A and can see into room A. Not only that, but he can also see everything in room B because it is not dark to him, it is lit up from room A.The second character does not know the wall is a figment, so he sees nothing in totally dark room B.Bad rules are bad rules Hyp.</blockquote>

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