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Handling spells that take a long time at the table?
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<blockquote data-quote="BlivetWidget" data-source="post: 7837032" data-attributes="member: 6912801"><p>I think the real driver leading to spell slowdown is twofold:</p><p>-Lack of familiarity with the spell... usually for both the player and DM.</p><p>-Lack of trust... usually for both the player and DM.</p><p></p><p>If you run a game where <em>either </em>the player or the DM knows how the spell works <em>and </em>both parties trust each other, it's quick and easy. Player casts Leomund's Tiny Hut, one of two things should happen:</p><p>(a) DM says everyone gets a safe long rest</p><p>(b) DM asks what the spell does, player says they get a forcefield camping tent that lasts the night, DM says everyone gets a safe long rest.</p><p></p><p>In both cases, immediately continue onward from the next day (or to fireside chat) with no appreciable loss of game time.</p><p></p><p>Where we run into trouble is when neither party knows what the spell does and everyone needs to look it up, or when one party is trying to pull one over on the other, typically a consequence of having an adversarial DM or having once had an adversarial DM in the past (so I'm not saying it's you). These forums are rife with DMs who want nothing more than to find a loophole in this or that spell to make it useless to the players.</p><p></p><p>Back to Leomund's Tiny Hut, the adversarial DM will go, "haha, they think they are safe, but I will decide that now all of my dungeons are filled with burrowing creatures who will go right under the hut!" At the table, this will devolve into an argument over what really defines a "hemisphere," people will be looking up Sage Advice, and if nobody is being obstinate, they will all realize that yes, the Tiny Hut has a floor and so burrowing creatures are useless against it. So the adversarial DM will start adding creatures to the dungeon that know Dispel Magic. Etc. This is why the player in that case is so heavily invested in what you're calling the "fine print" of the spell: they feel it's their only defense. Same if they don't declare their intentions with the spell: they feel they need to surprise the DM to get what they're looking for.</p><p></p><p>When I've got a player who takes a spell, I just let it do the cool thing. The player who chose Leomund's Tiny Hut had to weigh it against really cool spells like Fireball. When they chose it, they essentially told me that they want to help the entire party, not by being in the spotlight themselves, but by giving everyone else a good night's rest and a chance to shine the next day. I want the players to succeed, we're telling a fun story together, so I don't lose anything there.</p><p></p><p>So to reiterate, I think there needs to be both familiarity with the spells and trust between the involved parties. Familiarity is an easy fix, but if the trust is lacking it may not even be your fault, possibly just bad past experiences. In that case, all I can suggest is a frank discussion. Let the players know you want them to succeed, and ask them to tell you want they want to accomplish when they cast the spell so you can quickly tell them if it can do that or not, and focus on the result instead of the process.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="BlivetWidget, post: 7837032, member: 6912801"] I think the real driver leading to spell slowdown is twofold: -Lack of familiarity with the spell... usually for both the player and DM. -Lack of trust... usually for both the player and DM. If you run a game where [I]either [/I]the player or the DM knows how the spell works [I]and [/I]both parties trust each other, it's quick and easy. Player casts Leomund's Tiny Hut, one of two things should happen: (a) DM says everyone gets a safe long rest (b) DM asks what the spell does, player says they get a forcefield camping tent that lasts the night, DM says everyone gets a safe long rest. In both cases, immediately continue onward from the next day (or to fireside chat) with no appreciable loss of game time. Where we run into trouble is when neither party knows what the spell does and everyone needs to look it up, or when one party is trying to pull one over on the other, typically a consequence of having an adversarial DM or having once had an adversarial DM in the past (so I'm not saying it's you). These forums are rife with DMs who want nothing more than to find a loophole in this or that spell to make it useless to the players. Back to Leomund's Tiny Hut, the adversarial DM will go, "haha, they think they are safe, but I will decide that now all of my dungeons are filled with burrowing creatures who will go right under the hut!" At the table, this will devolve into an argument over what really defines a "hemisphere," people will be looking up Sage Advice, and if nobody is being obstinate, they will all realize that yes, the Tiny Hut has a floor and so burrowing creatures are useless against it. So the adversarial DM will start adding creatures to the dungeon that know Dispel Magic. Etc. This is why the player in that case is so heavily invested in what you're calling the "fine print" of the spell: they feel it's their only defense. Same if they don't declare their intentions with the spell: they feel they need to surprise the DM to get what they're looking for. When I've got a player who takes a spell, I just let it do the cool thing. The player who chose Leomund's Tiny Hut had to weigh it against really cool spells like Fireball. When they chose it, they essentially told me that they want to help the entire party, not by being in the spotlight themselves, but by giving everyone else a good night's rest and a chance to shine the next day. I want the players to succeed, we're telling a fun story together, so I don't lose anything there. So to reiterate, I think there needs to be both familiarity with the spells and trust between the involved parties. Familiarity is an easy fix, but if the trust is lacking it may not even be your fault, possibly just bad past experiences. In that case, all I can suggest is a frank discussion. Let the players know you want them to succeed, and ask them to tell you want they want to accomplish when they cast the spell so you can quickly tell them if it can do that or not, and focus on the result instead of the process. [/QUOTE]
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