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<blockquote data-quote="NotAYakk" data-source="post: 8833599" data-attributes="member: 72555">They beat part of the &quot;civilized&quot; people.See, what if the elves and dwarves won the first centuries of the war?&nbsp; They pushed the orcs back and back, claiming more and more territory with magic and fortifications.Then the orcs found their own magics and ways to defeat the fortifications of the enemy.&nbsp; They have now reclaimed 75% of what they lost.This looks a lot like &quot;the orcs have won&quot;, but in reality the dwarves and elves still have displaced the orcs from 25% of the territory they had. And the settlements the orcs have still don't have enough buffer room around them, because the other races keep building forts in the &quot;fallow&quot; territory the orc civilization requires.&nbsp; Leading to raiding etc.A full on horde attack requires (a) a pile of gathered resources, (b) a leader able to unify the tribes, and (c) an enroachment bad enough to justify the horde.Short of the horde, you get raiding.&nbsp; Constant raiding, because the &quot;civilized people&quot; keep on trying to push into the fallow territory (the edges of which aren't well guarded) and build fortifications.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="NotAYakk, post: 8833599, member: 72555"] They beat [I]part[/I] of the "civilized" people. See, what if the elves and dwarves won the first centuries of the war? They pushed the orcs back and back, claiming more and more territory with magic and fortifications. Then the orcs found their own magics and ways to defeat the fortifications of the enemy. They have now reclaimed 75% of what they lost. This looks a lot like "the orcs have won", but in reality the dwarves and elves [I]still[/I] have displaced the orcs from 25% of the territory they had. And the settlements the orcs have still don't have enough buffer room around them, because the other races keep building forts in the "fallow" territory the orc civilization requires. Leading to raiding etc. A full on horde attack requires (a) a pile of gathered resources, (b) a leader able to unify the tribes, and (c) an enroachment bad enough to justify the horde. Short of the horde, you get raiding. Constant raiding, because the "civilized people" keep on trying to push into the fallow territory (the edges of which aren't well guarded) and build fortifications. [/QUOTE]

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