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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Handling things like Riding and Craft with 4E Skills.
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<blockquote data-quote="Saeviomagy" data-source="post: 4360288" data-attributes="member: 5890"><p>Basically it goes like this:</p><p></p><p>In 3.5 if your players were using the crafting skills as written, then they were doing it either</p><p>a) Purely for roleplaying reasons: there really wasn't any benefit to crafting something yourself. The money you saved was simply not worth the time.</p><p>b) Because the wizard had mandatory downtime, and you had nothing else to do with your time.</p><p>c) Because you wanted to get something that the DM wouldn't let you get out of the shops</p><p>d) Because you were cheesing out fabricate</p><p></p><p>a) isn't a good reason to have detailed craft mechanics. In fact, it's probably a reason to NOT have detailed mechanics, because nothing ruins a "I crafted this bow myself" story like someone saying "that's impossible - you can't possibly make those at level X without..."</p><p></p><p>b) isn't a good reason to have detailed craft mechanics because it would be better for all involved if the wizard didn't have mandatory downtime OR everyone had something worthwhile to do.</p><p></p><p>d) is a good reason to avoid having a detailed craft mechanic, because if it has mechanics it can probably be abused by someone.</p><p></p><p>So that leaves us with c) - the DM wants you to work for the item in question.</p><p></p><p>Personally I can think of more interesting things to make a player do than to roll their craft skill 238 times if they want something crafted.</p><p></p><p>The ride skill is a bit similar: players wanted a good ride skill because of </p><p>a) roleplaying reasons - being able to ride fits their character's image</p><p>b) riding is, for some reason, a campaign necessity</p><p>c) they're a halfling paladin on a riding dog with a rack of charge-related feats who one-shots equivalent level monsters</p><p></p><p>a and b are good reasons against having a mechanical cost to being able to ride (ie - it's bad to force people to make their character worse to roleplay, and it's also bad to have a campaign force people to spend character resources that are supposed to differentiate characters). In either case "just let them be able to ride" works just fine.</p><p></p><p>c is a good reason against it, because again: it takes a lot of effort to make and maintain mechanics that cannot be exploited.</p><p></p><p>Profession skills are a little bit like riding - it tends to be either a roleplaying choice or a campaign necessity, and personally I don't think it's a great idea to charge someone for either.</p><p></p><p>That said, if you can come up with a feat that is purely beneficial to the character that ALSO helps with flavour, that's a totally different kettle of fish.</p><p></p><p>Finally - you mentioned that you allowed craft checks to produce magical items from magical components - well, that's pretty much what the enchant item ritual does. If you're willing to tinker with it a bit (ie - if you require that the PCs get specific items to perform enchantments), then there's no reason that you can't remove it's level restriction and use it to fuel quests (as I presume you're doing when you send the PCs to get components). I think the default level restriction on it is there simply to make players appreciate the magic items they find more in the first few levels of play.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Saeviomagy, post: 4360288, member: 5890"] Basically it goes like this: In 3.5 if your players were using the crafting skills as written, then they were doing it either a) Purely for roleplaying reasons: there really wasn't any benefit to crafting something yourself. The money you saved was simply not worth the time. b) Because the wizard had mandatory downtime, and you had nothing else to do with your time. c) Because you wanted to get something that the DM wouldn't let you get out of the shops d) Because you were cheesing out fabricate a) isn't a good reason to have detailed craft mechanics. In fact, it's probably a reason to NOT have detailed mechanics, because nothing ruins a "I crafted this bow myself" story like someone saying "that's impossible - you can't possibly make those at level X without..." b) isn't a good reason to have detailed craft mechanics because it would be better for all involved if the wizard didn't have mandatory downtime OR everyone had something worthwhile to do. d) is a good reason to avoid having a detailed craft mechanic, because if it has mechanics it can probably be abused by someone. So that leaves us with c) - the DM wants you to work for the item in question. Personally I can think of more interesting things to make a player do than to roll their craft skill 238 times if they want something crafted. The ride skill is a bit similar: players wanted a good ride skill because of a) roleplaying reasons - being able to ride fits their character's image b) riding is, for some reason, a campaign necessity c) they're a halfling paladin on a riding dog with a rack of charge-related feats who one-shots equivalent level monsters a and b are good reasons against having a mechanical cost to being able to ride (ie - it's bad to force people to make their character worse to roleplay, and it's also bad to have a campaign force people to spend character resources that are supposed to differentiate characters). In either case "just let them be able to ride" works just fine. c is a good reason against it, because again: it takes a lot of effort to make and maintain mechanics that cannot be exploited. Profession skills are a little bit like riding - it tends to be either a roleplaying choice or a campaign necessity, and personally I don't think it's a great idea to charge someone for either. That said, if you can come up with a feat that is purely beneficial to the character that ALSO helps with flavour, that's a totally different kettle of fish. Finally - you mentioned that you allowed craft checks to produce magical items from magical components - well, that's pretty much what the enchant item ritual does. If you're willing to tinker with it a bit (ie - if you require that the PCs get specific items to perform enchantments), then there's no reason that you can't remove it's level restriction and use it to fuel quests (as I presume you're doing when you send the PCs to get components). I think the default level restriction on it is there simply to make players appreciate the magic items they find more in the first few levels of play. [/QUOTE]
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Handling things like Riding and Craft with 4E Skills.
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