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D&D Older Editions
Handling things like Riding and Craft with 4E Skills.
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<blockquote data-quote="DracoSuave" data-source="post: 5612884" data-attributes="member: 71571"><p>When said gaming system is about gaining power so you can tackle other things to game more power, yes, having skills that get you power is essential to the maintenance of that central tone.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>Except that powers represent things you can do above and beyond the normal. Not how you tackle the normal. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But what is that perform skill check trying to accomplish? What is its in game context? And how does a Perform skill check reflect that in game context better than, say, a Diplomacy check to use a performance to communicate to a warring tribe, or a Bluff check to distract guards with your fast juggling while humming Flight of the Bumblebees? Or by using one of your spells to ensorcell an enemy? Performance is not an effect... it's a means to attain effects that are already well covered in game.</p><p></p><p>What value does adding "Perform' to your skill set have, when you can fluff your performance as tempering your Diplomatic and Bluffing skills?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But why was it important? What -exact- signifigance and experience did it create? The skills itself are just a means to an end, look at the -end- itself? And is that end something that a game of power fantasy should be trying to accomplish?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Craft, and Profession was not used by a large demographic. At best, it sat there on the sheet as a means to justify background and got little actual play.</p><p></p><p>Contrast to Star Wars, where the crafting system was actually inherent to a lot of the crunch. D&D does it wrong, Star Wars does it right.</p><p></p><p>The way to make crafting matter is to Make. Crafting. Matter. Simply having the skill exist is not enough.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But they -are- irrelevant. They don't DO anything. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So long as the supplement is -relevant- and actually creates capability for adventure, then I'd be for it.</p><p></p><p>If it's a 'Here's a more complicated way to accomplish the same thing as a minor transaction' deal, then there's no point.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The other thing to realise about 4th edition is that your stuff is not as important as it was in 3rd edition. Powers are the centerpiece, not equipment or magic items or what not... all that is for is supplementing powers.</p><p></p><p>Which means that crafting abilities, to be relevent in fourth edition, have to deal within that frame work. That's kinda important.</p><p></p><p>Having a spot on your character sheet that says 'Herp, I can make normal bows' doesn't require an entire book. All you need is the stats for a normal bow... and a place on your character sheet to write you can make them.</p><p></p><p>In 4th edition, the section is called 'Notes'.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DracoSuave, post: 5612884, member: 71571"] When said gaming system is about gaining power so you can tackle other things to game more power, yes, having skills that get you power is essential to the maintenance of that central tone. Except that powers represent things you can do above and beyond the normal. Not how you tackle the normal. But what is that perform skill check trying to accomplish? What is its in game context? And how does a Perform skill check reflect that in game context better than, say, a Diplomacy check to use a performance to communicate to a warring tribe, or a Bluff check to distract guards with your fast juggling while humming Flight of the Bumblebees? Or by using one of your spells to ensorcell an enemy? Performance is not an effect... it's a means to attain effects that are already well covered in game. What value does adding "Perform' to your skill set have, when you can fluff your performance as tempering your Diplomatic and Bluffing skills? But why was it important? What -exact- signifigance and experience did it create? The skills itself are just a means to an end, look at the -end- itself? And is that end something that a game of power fantasy should be trying to accomplish? Craft, and Profession was not used by a large demographic. At best, it sat there on the sheet as a means to justify background and got little actual play. Contrast to Star Wars, where the crafting system was actually inherent to a lot of the crunch. D&D does it wrong, Star Wars does it right. The way to make crafting matter is to Make. Crafting. Matter. Simply having the skill exist is not enough. But they -are- irrelevant. They don't DO anything. So long as the supplement is -relevant- and actually creates capability for adventure, then I'd be for it. If it's a 'Here's a more complicated way to accomplish the same thing as a minor transaction' deal, then there's no point. The other thing to realise about 4th edition is that your stuff is not as important as it was in 3rd edition. Powers are the centerpiece, not equipment or magic items or what not... all that is for is supplementing powers. Which means that crafting abilities, to be relevent in fourth edition, have to deal within that frame work. That's kinda important. Having a spot on your character sheet that says 'Herp, I can make normal bows' doesn't require an entire book. All you need is the stats for a normal bow... and a place on your character sheet to write you can make them. In 4th edition, the section is called 'Notes'. [/QUOTE]
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