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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 6866384" data-attributes="member: 16814">No, of course she has the right to rage.  I, however, reject the argument that because she has a legit complaint under the broad brush (and she does) that others must ignore the sexism, racism, and stereotyping inherent in her statements and that they should be shamed into shutting up because you think her experience more than justifies the attacks.I think what she describes is horrible, and I stand up to it every time I see it.  I've started gaming in a FLGS lately after decades of nothing but home games, and I've had to stand up once or twice due to crappy behavior by others.  She has a very real point that the hobby in general has a problem of an overabundance of crappy people and a serious overabundance of people that won't challenge the crap before it's too late.  Those are things that are worth talking about and I'm glad she's making such a stink over them.  But her choice of words are offensive to others, and the very thing we need to stand up about within the hobby.  Don't shame others into silence because they're doing what we want everyone in the hobby to do -- stand up for the dignity of all members.  That includes the white males who aren't crappy people.We should be dealing with individuals, not groups, on both sides.Yes, I'm familiar with how you misuse the 'tone argument'.  That hasn't worked for you, yet, why do you keep doing it?  I'm not dismissing her arguments over the tone she used.  She's angry, and deserves to be angry, and she has some great points.  My argument isn't even directed at her article, but at the argument made in this thread that saying 'not all men' is just distracting from the real important points.  It's not, it's only distracting if you think saying 'I'm not cool with your stereotyping' isn't cool.  If you're going to try to make my argument into a tone argument, which it's not, then you need to take a long hard look at your own statements about 'not all men,' because that would qualify as well.Good thing that's not what I did.  And there's never a point at which a cause is noble and just enough to make a sexist and racist statement disappear.  I can criticize my side for crappy behavior even as I stand with them to challenge even crappier behavior.  There is no requirement that my side be immune from all criticism or improvement.  I believe her experience because I've seen similar things happen.  I stand up, and I hope everyone here does as well.  Have I ignoring things I shouldn't on occasion?  Yes, shamefully, but we all are flawed and all sometimes don't think that something that's truly bothersome was more than a joke in bad taste or an accidentally bad choice of phrase.  But I get there, and in bad cases, I get there quickly.  I burned a friendship down in college because my ex-friend got comfortable enough with me to start in with some vile racist <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> about a classmate -- and one I didn't particularly like (personality conflicts).  I ended that friendship on the spot.  So, yeah, I bat for the right team on this.  I'm against racism in all of its forms, and that means that I'm not going to quietly tolerate it because the speaker is nominally on my side of the issue.Ah, that lovely idea, privilege.  The norm we should be working towards is that no one suffers racism, and that shouldn't include the idea that those that currently don't are privileged to not.  Yes, my daily life is free from racism, but I don't feel bad for that, I just work to make sure that my daily life doesn't cause more racism and that I correct what I can when I see it.  There's no need to raise the issue with a sexist and racist statement.  The issue can be raised broadly without that, and if you honestly think it can't, or if you honestly think that I don't think that this is an issue that should be broadly raised, then I don't really have any reality based reasons to discuss it further with you.I agree with the statement that men should step up.  I disagree that there's a need to label all white men as terrorist because there's some crappy behavior.  Again, I don't have to accept sexism and racism in any of it's forms to combat sexism and racism.  Further, I don't have to refrain from criticism of people nominally on the same side of the fight as me.  Asking that we don't engage in the same, if lesser, forms of behavior we're fighting against doesn't weaken the fight or distract from it.  We should be striving to be better at this across the board, and not be accepting of lesser forms of it because it's combating a greater injustice.</blockquote>

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