Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Gradine" data-source="post: 6869767" data-attributes="member: 57112">I apologize if I have misread your statements or arguments. It appears I was making some assumptions about where you were coming from based on your overall position, and more to the point conflating the argument you've been having with other discussions happening in this thread, which is obviously not something I should be doing while trying to engage in a productive conversation. As someone who hates when my own statements are misread or when people make incorrect assumptions by erroneously "reading between the lines", I again apologize, sincerely, for misrepresenting you specifically.However, I feel like I too have been misrepresented here. To write off the rest of what I have to say as "insulting and oblivious" is the very definition of being insulting and oblivious yourself. Part of that is my fault; I did address (if indirectly) a lot of this messaging towards you specifically when it actually appears it was intended towards other individuals in the thread. That said, nothing I have said is not absolutely true; it most certainly is. I just misplaced your particular argument as one being about belief (where I do sincerely believe constructive dialogue is unlikely if not impossible until one side demonstrates the ability to practice basic levels of human empathy); where instead it seems like your argument falls more in line with the merits of the scope of and possible solutions to the problem, which I think is a productive dialogue.That said, there is an element of "belief" that has created a sticking point, and this is what you would refer to as "identity politics" and the notion of privilege. It's a significant sticking point because sexual harassment and violence against women in gaming communities is not isolated problem that exists in a vacuum; it's intractably linked to all sorts of broader societal issues that I and others believe need to be addressed to see any progress but you can feel free to roll your eyes at as I list them: toxic masculinity ("we'll kick their asses to protect our women!"), the objectification of women (women as victims/sexual trophies, to bring it back to gaming), rape culture (which is an idea not even all anti-rape activists have gotten on board with at this point so I'll forgive the eye rolling), the inherent distrust of women ("obviously every story here is fictional"), etc. It's my belief that any conversation about the scope of the problem or any possible solutions cannot prove effective unless each of these issues (and more) are addressed as well. You obviously disagree. So yeah, that's a pretty big sticking point, but not nearly at the level of the "none of these issues are true/men standing up for this aren't real men" nonsense that happened further up-thread. We're still in the scope/solution stage at this point.It is worth mentioning, though, that unless I'm missing anything (feel free to tell me if I have), but the only person referring to you as a terrorist for not 100% aligning yourself with the base assumptions of the article's author or anyone else in the thread is... well, you. This sort of self-victimization and defensiveness does derail the conversation (see the tone policing of the article's author, also in this thread) and detracts from the real issues you yourself seem to agree are much more important. I'm going to address this next statement to entire thread/board, because I'm truly not singling you out here: but if you read the entirety of her article and thought she was defining you, personally, as a terrorist, then that probably is something that you should take a moment of self-reflection about, which if I had to guess I would say was entirely intentional on the author's part.So yeah, I apologize again for lumping your argument with some of the more intractable and unreasonable stuff up-thread. I still not certain there's a middle ground to be reached between you and others until you're willing to give even a smidgen of an inch on some of the gender politics stuff that myself and others feel is undeniably linked to this issue, but I'm hopeful and I certainly don't think the discussion is not worth having. I mean, you obviously seem to give some sort of credence to the notions of identity politics and privilege or else you wouldn't have dragged dannyalcatraz into your comment about white accusers (intersectionality!). I certainly should not have declared you bereft of empathy; I'm sorry for that. Again, those comments were really directed at others in this thread, it's simply the timing of when I came to the thread and my own misreading that I ended up directing them at you instead.</blockquote>

Verification