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<blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 6879855" data-attributes="member: 177">I know.&nbsp; That's the point.&nbsp; This is the essence of casual sexism, I'm afraid.&nbsp; This arose through the choice of &quot;overly&quot;.&nbsp; It is an implicit positioning&nbsp; - the women are overly sensitive, so what the men are doing is okay.&nbsp; If we were acknowledging that what the men are doing is not okay, then we'd not be saying the women are overly sensitive to feel it.&nbsp; If men are being jerks, people of normal sensitivity will note it.Are you going to claim that how men treat women in gaming contexts, the attitudes they bring to the table arise *only* at the gaming table?&nbsp; I submit quite the opposite - folks are bringing attitudes and habits established largely away from the gaming table, and bringing them to game.&nbsp; We cannot expect to change that larger context all on our own, but we must acknowledge it, and understand how it works, as we attempt to make localized areas where people are expected to behave differently.And... the Godwin approaches...And how did you come by the social contract about what was okay, and what wasn't?&nbsp; Think about that carefully for a moment before you answer, please.&nbsp;Yes.&nbsp; That's kind of the point of the discussion.&nbsp; We behave poorly.&nbsp; We behave as if we don't have to care about large swaths of people.The categorization of it as &quot;political&quot; correctness, however, is dismissive.&nbsp; This is about something more like *actual* correctness and proper behavior towards your fellow human beings.&nbsp; You have a person at the table, not a candidate for office.&nbsp; They have feelings, not just political motivations.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Umbran, post: 6879855, member: 177"] I know. That's the point. This is the essence of casual sexism, I'm afraid. This arose through the choice of "overly". It is an implicit positioning - the women are overly sensitive, so what the men are doing is okay. If we were acknowledging that what the men are doing is not okay, then we'd not be saying the women are overly sensitive to feel it. If men are being jerks, people of normal sensitivity will note it. Are you going to claim that how men treat women in gaming contexts, the attitudes they bring to the table arise *only* at the gaming table? I submit quite the opposite - folks are bringing attitudes and habits established largely away from the gaming table, and bringing them to game. We cannot expect to change that larger context all on our own, but we must acknowledge it, and understand how it works, as we attempt to make localized areas where people are expected to behave differently. And... the Godwin approaches... And how did you come by the social contract about what was okay, and what wasn't? Think about that carefully for a moment before you answer, please. Yes. That's kind of the point of the discussion. We behave poorly. We behave as if we don't have to care about large swaths of people. The categorization of it as "political" correctness, however, is dismissive. This is about something more like *actual* correctness and proper behavior towards your fellow human beings. You have a person at the table, not a candidate for office. They have feelings, not just political motivations. [/QUOTE]

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