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<blockquote data-quote="MechaPilot" data-source="post: 6881534" data-attributes="member: 82779"><p>That the majority of the loincloth clad males have been of the bodybuilder body type has been my overall experience with loincloth clad men in fantasy rpg art. That said, my experience is simply that, and I cannot claim to have experienced all of the fantasy art that is available for visual consumption.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I didn't say that nerds wanted to be like jocks. I agree with you that saying nerds want to be like jocks would be BS. I was commenting that nerds are often subject to the whims of the stronger and more popular, and that having the strength to make them back-off would be appealing. The desire for power by the downtrodden is generally the nature of wish-fulfillment seen with regard to muscle-men.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think there's room for all kinds of portrayals. I don't even mind a small amount of the pin-up stuff, but I'd prefer if there was a rough balance between what appeals to men and women. I'd also generally prefer if it makes sense. The CMB really just doesn't make sense as armor, so it shouldn't be presented as if it were worn for protection. However, I can't say I'd have an issue with a female caster in the slave Leia-ish outfit as long as there was also a shirtless Orlando Bloom-ish elf or swashbuckler. And, naturally, I wouldn't want the pin-up art to represent a significant amount of the art in the book.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Cumberbatch is kind of yummy. But, I don't think there's anything wrong with including the wish-fulfillment art. I just don't want art directors for the books to mistake those images as balancing the sexualized female imagery. What I'd like to see is the female art focusing as much on competence and badassery as the male art. I certainly don't have an issue with a smattering of pin-up style art, dividing it roughly equally between what appeals to men and to women.</p><p></p><p>Ultimately, what I want out of the art is this:</p><p>1) Cool, competent looking characters of both genders that people can look to for character inspiration</p><p>2) Pin-up art minimally present, and roughly balanced between male and female appeal</p><p>3) To be able to show the books to a girlfriend without feeling as if we're browsing a Victoria's Secret catalog together</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The essential problem with scantily clad women is that they are almost always presented as being less-competent, less-prepared, less-sensible (especially if they expect a CMB to actually protect them from harm), and more fixated on having value through their appearance than are scantily clad males. Scantily clad males, who are typically quite muscular, are generally presented as being strong enough and tough enough to deal with whatever comes their way. Although, the simple fact that most scantily clad characters aren't shown with backpacks or other generally necessary adventuring gear makes them all seem less-prepared for the task than characters who are not scantily clad.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="MechaPilot, post: 6881534, member: 82779"] That the majority of the loincloth clad males have been of the bodybuilder body type has been my overall experience with loincloth clad men in fantasy rpg art. That said, my experience is simply that, and I cannot claim to have experienced all of the fantasy art that is available for visual consumption. I didn't say that nerds wanted to be like jocks. I agree with you that saying nerds want to be like jocks would be BS. I was commenting that nerds are often subject to the whims of the stronger and more popular, and that having the strength to make them back-off would be appealing. The desire for power by the downtrodden is generally the nature of wish-fulfillment seen with regard to muscle-men. I think there's room for all kinds of portrayals. I don't even mind a small amount of the pin-up stuff, but I'd prefer if there was a rough balance between what appeals to men and women. I'd also generally prefer if it makes sense. The CMB really just doesn't make sense as armor, so it shouldn't be presented as if it were worn for protection. However, I can't say I'd have an issue with a female caster in the slave Leia-ish outfit as long as there was also a shirtless Orlando Bloom-ish elf or swashbuckler. And, naturally, I wouldn't want the pin-up art to represent a significant amount of the art in the book. Cumberbatch is kind of yummy. But, I don't think there's anything wrong with including the wish-fulfillment art. I just don't want art directors for the books to mistake those images as balancing the sexualized female imagery. What I'd like to see is the female art focusing as much on competence and badassery as the male art. I certainly don't have an issue with a smattering of pin-up style art, dividing it roughly equally between what appeals to men and to women. Ultimately, what I want out of the art is this: 1) Cool, competent looking characters of both genders that people can look to for character inspiration 2) Pin-up art minimally present, and roughly balanced between male and female appeal 3) To be able to show the books to a girlfriend without feeling as if we're browsing a Victoria's Secret catalog together The essential problem with scantily clad women is that they are almost always presented as being less-competent, less-prepared, less-sensible (especially if they expect a CMB to actually protect them from harm), and more fixated on having value through their appearance than are scantily clad males. Scantily clad males, who are typically quite muscular, are generally presented as being strong enough and tough enough to deal with whatever comes their way. Although, the simple fact that most scantily clad characters aren't shown with backpacks or other generally necessary adventuring gear makes them all seem less-prepared for the task than characters who are not scantily clad. [/QUOTE]
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