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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 6884529" data-attributes="member: 16814">Threats such as those were illegal long before 'terroristic' became a buzzword.  But we aren't entirely talking about just death threats, battery threats (technically, a threat is already assault, so...), or rape threats, are we?  And the incidence of those is far, far lower than the incidence of harassment.  The scope there shows that the word is being too broadly applied.If I understand your point, then the pushback should be against any kind of stereotyping or harassment.  I'm pretty vehement about not tolerating harassment of anyone.  I'm also very willing to admit that women are far more likely to suffer harassment than other groups (in gaming, and often in other venues), and that the reason for that is largely systemic and embedded in the group dynamics of the culture (in gaming, and in other venues).  HOWEVER, that recognition and acceptance in no way means that I need to turn a blind eye to stereotyping others in pursuit of the goal of reducing harassment.  It does mean that the level of acknowledgement is much less -- I won't be taking any concrete actions to stop people from using such stereotypes outside of saying that their unnecessary and counterproductive.  I have and do take far more concrete steps to reduce harassment of women.And that's my real problem -- the extremism that's gripped the political discussions in the US and the world has bled over into other problems.  If I do not walk in ideological lockstep with the vocal group, I am part of the problem.  I reject that, and I also reject many of the tenets of the current vocal group's ideology.  I think that a culture of group shame and guilt is a bad culture, and counterproductive.  It's also unnecessary to accept such an ideology to achieve gains in reducing harassment.Now, I'll fully agree that some people will say something like this and then go further into outright denial of problems that don't meet a ludicrous level of evidence.  They're posting in this thread.  I'm not that guy.  There's a problem, it need attention, and there's lots of way to improve.  I don't doubt that harassment is ongoing in gaming culture, that it largely targets women, and that it's almost entirely perpetrated by men, many of whom are white.  Those are facts.  They do not, however, support a stereotype that gaming has a White Male Terrorism problem.  I suppose I've never had this problem.  Maybe because I wasn't a social outcast, and I wasn't bullied by none gamers.  In fact, the most bullying I've ever personally suffered has been at the hands of gamers (not that I particularly cared, but they tried).  To me, people are people no matter where you are.  And people have a tremendous capacity to suck.  And be fantastic.  So I don't wear rose colored glasses about groups of people being more noble or better behaved that other groups.  At best, I expect them to be people.Now, some groups do have a higher likelihood of sucking.  And gamers, having often been subjected to bullying and being on the short end of the social power stick, are one of them.  But that's a people thing, too.  If you beat up a person and then give them power, like social power in a group, then they will tend to lash out at the persons or group that abused them.  And gamers, most male and mostly white, have often been on the short end of the man/woman social power stick for, like, always.  So, it makes sense that it would happen, from that perspective.  However, making sense and being acceptable are two very different things.  Probably not to the immediate perspective of the woman being harassed, no.  However, comma.  It should matter when discussing how to correct the behavior.  If someone is malicious, no manner of talking will correct the behavior.  If someone is stupid, they can be educated.  In order to successfully educate, though, you need to be able to talk to the person.  If your discussion is all 'you have a white male terrorism problem' then some of the stupid people will not listen because you've started by insulting them.  It's counterproductive, even if it's cathartic.  Also, I think there are some that enjoy the social power dynamic of taking up the defense of harassed women and then using that to be able to be mean and insulting to others that aren't on their team.  It's just another example of the 'abused people that get power often abuse that power' effect.  Taking the high road, and not engaging in charged language but in rational discourse will reach many of the stupid people much better than haranguing them.  The malicious you just have to kick out/get arrested.  No solving them.</blockquote>

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