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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 6885083" data-attributes="member: 16814">Ah, the kafkatrap, again. First you describe a situation that most right thinking people would find horrible -- a life of harassment.&nbsp; Then you introduce the identity politics -- it's white men that can't recognize the problem.&nbsp; Then you establish that you should either accept that you should be in the blame group because you don't get it, or that you explicitly condone the harassment.&nbsp; Thing is, I don't have to accept your framework to do good against harassment.The core of your statement is the one truth, but it's a trivial one.&nbsp; Without the identity politics baggage, you're just essentially saying that empathy is good -- trying to understand the situation from a victim's point of view is a good thing to do.&nbsp; And, to that, I have no issue.&nbsp; It's trivially obvious that empathy is a good thing.&nbsp; But the cloak of identity politics draped over this -- women, white men, accept guilt for your group -- distorts the essential goodness of the empathy.&nbsp; It turns it into a signalling device to position yourself as a defender of the downtrodden with you having done nothing except publicly state that you're okay with your group guilt -- that you accept the condemnation.&nbsp; All that does is give you the illusion of a moral high ground to lecture others on their guilty natures, which they come to by accident of genetics.&nbsp; Essentially, your statement is nothing more than a statement of political tribalism.&nbsp; It does nothing to advance or correct the problem -- it just makes you feel better and superior to others because you've accepted your place in the framework, which, regardless of the guilt assigned to your group, is defined as superior to anyone that hasn't accepted the guilt.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 6885083, member: 16814"] Ah, the kafkatrap, again. First you describe a situation that most right thinking people would find horrible -- a life of harassment. Then you introduce the identity politics -- it's white men that can't recognize the problem. Then you establish that you should either accept that you should be in the blame group because you don't get it, or that you explicitly condone the harassment. Thing is, I don't have to accept your framework to do good against harassment. The core of your statement is the one truth, but it's a trivial one. Without the identity politics baggage, you're just essentially saying that empathy is good -- trying to understand the situation from a victim's point of view is a good thing to do. And, to that, I have no issue. It's trivially obvious that empathy is a good thing. But the cloak of identity politics draped over this -- women, white men, accept guilt for your group -- distorts the essential goodness of the empathy. It turns it into a signalling device to position yourself as a defender of the downtrodden with you having done nothing except publicly state that you're okay with your group guilt -- that you accept the condemnation. All that does is give you the illusion of a moral high ground to lecture others on their guilty natures, which they come to by accident of genetics. Essentially, your statement is nothing more than a statement of political tribalism. It does nothing to advance or correct the problem -- it just makes you feel better and superior to others because you've accepted your place in the framework, which, regardless of the guilt assigned to your group, is defined as superior to anyone that hasn't accepted the guilt. [/QUOTE]

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