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<blockquote data-quote="Spatzimaus" data-source="post: 326250" data-attributes="member: 3051">I'm with Caliber here.&nbsp; Besides, the whole &quot;the monsters can do it too&quot; argument doesn't work, because we're not debating whether it's biased towards the players, we're debating whether the spell is too deadly compared to other spells of its level.&nbsp; Most people seem to accept that it is.Look at those two situations you mentioned: in one shot, the dragon was down to 2 HP.&nbsp; One good shot with a bow, or a Psychic Warrior using Deep Impact (or the similar Feats), or a spellcaster using a level 1 spell enough times to beat SR, and you've just beaten a really high-level opponent with almost no danger.Since a Dragon only has natural armor, with his size penalty he's got an AC well below 10 against touch attacks.&nbsp; A level 11+ Cleric will have a BAB higher than that.&nbsp; It's an automatic hit, with no save.&nbsp; Only SR will save you (and he probably has Spell Penetration), and if you're using that ranged touch feat there's no chance of an AoO.&nbsp; Yeah, that's balanced.To top it off, if I knew the Cleric was going to Harm the dragon, I'd hold my action until after it landed, to make sure I finished it off.&nbsp; If your players didn't do that, it doesn't mean the spell is balanced.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Spatzimaus, post: 326250, member: 3051"] I'm with Caliber here. Besides, the whole "the monsters can do it too" argument doesn't work, because we're not debating whether it's biased towards the players, we're debating whether the spell is too deadly compared to other spells of its level. Most people seem to accept that it is. Look at those two situations you mentioned: in one shot, the dragon was down to 2 HP. One good shot with a bow, or a Psychic Warrior using Deep Impact (or the similar Feats), or a spellcaster using a level 1 spell enough times to beat SR, and you've just beaten a really high-level opponent with almost no danger. Since a Dragon only has natural armor, with his size penalty he's got an AC well below 10 against touch attacks. A level 11+ Cleric will have a BAB higher than that. It's an automatic hit, with no save. Only SR will save you (and he probably has Spell Penetration), and if you're using that ranged touch feat there's no chance of an AoO. Yeah, that's balanced. To top it off, if I knew the Cleric was going to Harm the dragon, I'd hold my action until after it landed, to make sure I finished it off. If your players didn't do that, it doesn't mean the spell is balanced. [/QUOTE]

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