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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kaptain_Kantrip" data-source="post: 264287" data-attributes="member: 546">Perhaps I let my enthusiasm cloud some of my statements--flaming or insulting anyone was not my intention--so I certainly apologize to anyone who was offended. However, I do think a lot of what I said was immediately misconstrued or intentionally twisted to fan the flames.It is almost impossible to explain the difference between Harn (the rules independent setting) and any of D&D's settings without ruffling feathers. The same goes for comparing the HarnMaster rules system and D&D rules. Saying that Harn is written for a higher level of reading comprehension (true) is immediately twisted around into "Harn is for smart people, D&D is for dummies." I don't believe I ever said that, and if I did (being too lazy to reread all my posts) I apologize, for that would be a blatant mischaracterization of D&D players. SHARK perhaps summed up my opinions best, and I thank him for "interpreting" my position into more palatable terms.I have a ton of d20 and D&D material; I still game it and enjoy it, but simply prefer a lower fantasy, grittier, more realistic setting (and rules) right now. 3e has burned me out in record time on high fantasy.Psion: A clarification--I said "Much of the third party product is high fantasy hack-n-slash" and I stand by this statement. Some product isn't, such as the ones you mentioned, or 3 Days To Kill by Atlas, or Shades of Gray by Auran (originally a Harn.de adventure called Web of the Widow on CD-Rom), but most of it is high fantasy, and assumes everyone is playing such, because that is the type of game supported by WoTC and their "back to the dungeon" (video game) mentality in designing 3e.3e and d20 can certainly be used to play other than high fantasy, but it works best in its basic (unaltered) form for cinematic, heroic, four-color comic book, high fantasy games like D&D or Spycraft. It must be radically altered (such as in Call of Cthulhu) in order to work in darker, grittier games. I'm talking about character creation, classes and magic, which resemble little of their D&D counterparts in Cthulhu. That WoTC did such a great job bending and twisting d20 to fit Cthulhu is testimony to the flexibility of the rules. I never said d20 was for morons, or little kids. It's written to be accessible to teenagers (target audience), which means it is easily understood by the most number of people. That's a strength and a weakness. Harn, being more complicated (and written by a curmudgeonly medieval history professor), is written for college age/educated types (target audience), which means it is understood by a much smaller number of people. This is a strength and a weakness. Playing D&D does not make you dumber than one playing Harn, and playing Harn does not make you smarter than one playing D&D. I'm playing d20 rules (tweaked) mixed with other d20:  Cthulhu, Spycraft, Swashbuckling Adventures and Fading Suns for my game set in Harn. I had to mix-n-match feats, classes and magic to get the type of game feel I wanted. HarnMaster would probably be better for gaming Harn, but I'm waiting for the new fourth edition to come out before switching from d20.</blockquote>

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