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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Desdichado" data-source="post: 264316" data-attributes="member: 2205">Flexor: why is that?  In general I do support d20 and show little interest in other systems.  Is that what you mean?That doesn't mean I think d20 is necessarily a superior system, just that it meets my needs well enough, and I'm not interested in learning other systems anymore.  Also, I prefer to have players than not!  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />KK: I think you underestimate the flexibility of d20 though.  CoC didn't necessarily "drastically" change D&D.  The classes were more like NPC classes, but that's not big deal.  The real kicker was the instant death threshold being lowered, which is a very minor change with very big implications.IMO, if I wanted grim n gritty "realistic" dark fantasy, I'd lower that instant death threshold (already done in CoC), slow advancement down to a crawl (suggested in the DMG), eliminate the high-magic character classes and replace them with something else (lots of non-magical "rangers" and such out there, and other magic systems are not quite a dime a dozen, but there's a few good alternatives) change armor to DR (already done in Star Wars) and off you go.To me, the detail of Harnworld doesn't necessarily ask for my attention.  Detail isn't hard to generate on your own, especially if you happen to read history as a hobby (which many gamers do) and I certainly don't need systems to replicate it.  A setting that is more conducive to grim and gritty playing, however, I can see a need for.  But I think the changes to D&D (d20) to get there can be accomplished real easy.</blockquote>

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