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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lackhand" data-source="post: 6905113" data-attributes="member: 36160">Do you want half-finished rants on how to use skills as a DM, too? :-DFirstly, 5e doesn't really prepare us well for "unnecessary rolls". If you have a narrow crack to squeeze through, there's a tendency to ask for an acrobatics check to see if you fit; even setting the DC to 5, what exactly is the DM going to do on failure?If there's a clear failure ("The ledge is slippery; you fall" or "You get seen by the guy you were evading"), then by all means, do that.Otherwise I get around that by making success on a check mean that you succeed first try, and every 2 points of failure a doubling in how much time, resources, and noise the failure costs you to convert to a success. When it gets to some number that's ludicrous, it's just a failure, and when the resources get too steep (usually time. "You've spent two minutes banging on the door and made a bit of noise -- it's not budging; want to keep going?"), the PCs declare failure. I still sometimes find myself asking for a roll on something the PCs can't realistically fail, but they can often cut me off -- "I spend 10 minutes casing the joint", for instance, tells me how invested they are.I'm then VERY cruel about the die roll; someone else can take over or help, but the roll carries; the newbie gets the benefits of their new circumstance, but generally does NOT get to reroll the d20; I have eight players, and if each one gets a crack at a task... ugly business :-DSecondly, IMO, the 5e skill system is in a weird half-place. The difference between a check and a save is kind of funny sometimes; for instance, anywhere else in the system if I told you I did something to inflict a condition on your character, but don't worry, you get a roll to avoid it, you'd call that a saving throw. Surprise, I was talking about receiving a grapple! If somebody tries to knock you prone, you make a saving throw if it was a wolf with a bite, but an athletics or acrobatics check if it was a person.And it's not just limited to the grappley/pushy end of the combat system, either. You make saving throws to avoid the effects of spells -- except for illusions, against which you make investigation checks. You make dexterity saving throws to avoid a fall from greased area -- but an athletics check to climb without falling, or an acrobatics check to inch along a narrow edge. You make a wisdom save to avoid being stunned, but a perception check to avoid being surprised.I don't think you could easily fix this today, as the distinction between save and check exists in the conditions and is necessary for, like, grapples to work right. But it's super annoying, because athletics and acrobatics are just strength and dexterity saves, and perception is your saving throw against surprise. Grump.Thirdly, I get a lot of mileage asking for people trained in the skill to make checks as a way to share spotlight (using proficiency itself as a permission). "Everyone trained in history knows..." or "Who's trained in survival? Okay, can you roll it? Wendy, you rolled highest at 17? You navigate the group around the ambush and can overhear the enemy, one, maybe two dozen by the shadows, speaking in low voices...". This is what you're doing when the rogue takes point and scouts ahead; being aware of it and making sure to pick other skills sometimes helps those characters get screentime and ensures your game has a good mix of activities.I kind of feel like the soft skills, like Tool Proficiency: Baker's Tools are there to support that sort of thing; not that every session is going to have a bake off, but they let the players have a write-in slot for voting on baker's tools coming up just once.I get the sense maybe you wanted more like "Oh, I use this awesome fine-grained skill point system". D&D is too class based for that to pay off (for me); the coarser the better :-D</blockquote>

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