Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="JohnSnow" data-source="post: 2724836" data-attributes="member: 32164">While I appreciate ThirdWizard's adamant defense of my points, I'd like to clarify what I was saying (since my first post was a quick throwaway, not a well-crafted explanation).D&D's class system provides a baseline of character ability as you go up in level (skills improve, characters get more feats, etc.). On top of that, the system assumes the characters receive an escalating "pool of points" that the characters use to "buy" additional powers over and above their class abilities. In D&D's case, the "buy" is quite literal (in-game as well as out) using the default GP wealth table in the DMG to provide the "points." Iron Heroes leaves in place the class abilities and eliminates the "point buy" part of class balance in favor of more "class abilities."I'm not talking about replacing gear that wears out. I'm referencing the need to upgrade a sword from +1 to +4 over the course of 18 levels. And your armor. And to swap your wand for a staff, and to pick up gloves of dexterity, a pearl of intellect, and so on, and so on."Realistic" is not a word that makes sense to me in regards to magic. For instance, in my conception of things magic swords don't lose their edge from regular use. That may not be realistic but it fits with my idea of how a "magical sword" behaves.If a character's power depends on his personal "Gear," he will invest a very small amount of his resources towards things that don't involve increasing his powers. I take it your players find all their weapons?The initial poster was talking about doing away with handing out loot in exchange for a static "shopping trip." That implies (strongly) that the PCs are buying weapons and magic gear. Compared to the wealth level of a typical PC of Level 7+ (per the DMG), upkeep is meaninglessly small.In D&D, I have to stat up a character, pick his feats, his stat boosting items, spend his gear, upgrade his equipment. It's not picking spells that takes time, it's getting the character's abilities in line with what they ought to be at his level.A high-level Iron Heroes character stats up almost as fast as a low-level one. Any extra time you spend is spent customizing the character to fit a concept, not making sure he's not a pushover because you didn't buy the right gear.Again, you're ignoring the magic items. There's a huge difference between creating an 8th-level character and a 9th-level character that has nothing to do with his class abilities. This is less relevant for players (who only do it once in a while) than DMs who make several such characters all the time (or always use the same pre-gen ones). In Core D&D, your characters are adventuring for loot. If they don't get loot, they can't keep adventuring against challenges of their level. You can compensate for it, but it's a pain in the neck.Firstly, joke. Based on the following:If PCs in Iron Heroes get money, they spend it on influence, wealth, ale & wenches, castles, businesses, or whatever. They do NOT spend it acquiring a "+9 Hackblade of Ogre-slaying."True. It is a preference thing. I've been playing D&D for almost 30 years. And my big objection to 3e is that I don't want to play "Go-go Gadget PC." I have a strong objection to "Christmas Tree PCs" who are decked out with dozens of stat boosting items. One magic item is fine. Even a few is fine - but I hate PCs with a dozen. We used to refer to games with that level of magic as "Monty Haul." So my personal preference is to play games where magic is special. Core D&D has to be re-written (and re-balanced) to make that work - Iron Heroes doesn't.Simply pulling the magic out of Core D&D does work, and any good DM can do it. I know - I have. But the problem is that doing that cuts down on player options and makes the game less fun for players. Iron Heroes fixes that by giving the players more to do now that they're no longer managing their magical powers. So it gives with one hand as it takes away with the other. The side effect (IMO) is that combat is more interesting and more fun. And nobody's forced to play a class they don't want to because that's how the game was written *cough*Cleric*cough*.In the modern world, that's true. That's assuming of course, that there's a sizable enough market for the items and that someone is able to make them cheaply enough that they can be sold for a reasonable price. Pre-industrial revolution, tremendous numbers of things had to be special-ordered from craftsmen who had to be coerced or bribed to do the work. A great swordsmith would probably operate more like Hitori Hanso in Kill Bill. He MIGHT make you one - if he liked you or was sufficiently motivated.Even today, there are many things you can't buy at any store. Because there isn't a sufficiently large market to support it. At best, I can't imagine a fantasy setting supporting more than one "magic shop" in the whole world. Unless it's ridiculously high-magic. I don't like magic as "technology." It's not.But like you said, it's a preference thing. I prefer my game system to support my preferences for magic being less ubiquitous. Iron Heroes does. Core D&D doesn't.</blockquote>

Verification