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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 2927379" data-attributes="member: 18280">But, if "No magic shops" was a given in, say, 1e (as many contend), that is a limitation in the RAW that precludes selling magic items wholesale.  Hence, if you don't include the RAW in what has to be logical, then the same observation applies to all editions, and again the argument collapses.  After all, earlier you were concerned about the idea that previous editions had spells that could easily make magic items, yet the RAW assumed no magic item shops.And, again, applying the RAW (even without invoking Rule 0, which certainly means that one can apply logic to any part of the RAW within the context of the RAW) you end up with quite a few questions about the logic of the setting.  Why don't governments control spellcasters?  They certainly could, without violating any part of the RAW, devise some control method that limits spellcasting (antimagic field collars, for example).As I suggested earlier, there is no difference between limiting the scope of applying logic to a setting now or earlier.But, once charmed, they can be induced to forgo future saving throws, because their buddy the mage is casting "helpful magic".  And even when you say that you are not talking about a minimum 5th level mage, where do you imagine 5th level mages come from?  If you're worried about snakes, do you crush the eggs in the nest or wait until the cobras are full-grown?Because the effects they could produce were both unreliable and minor.  Even a 1st level wizard is better at magic than all but the most notable RW examples.  The minute you make magic reliable, demonstrable, and growing exponentially in power, you change that dynamic.No worries.   I don't think "logical" is the right word, either.  It is simply different.   <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> RC</blockquote>

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