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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 2933658" data-attributes="member: 22779">Just a couple of points.  My point was, how do we view the implications of RAW upon a setting.  Sure, you can change the RAW.  That's always true.  But, that still ignores the question.  Heavy handed or not, it doesn't address the question at hand.According to 3e RAW, clerics don't need gods.  There is no reason that clerics cannot come about at the same time as druids and sorcs.  The only one that "needs" training is wizards.Heh, out of order, but,This is a base point that we disagree on.  The demographics of the magic in DnD is hardly high magic.  As was mentioned in another thread, Waterdeep, Pop 135 000 (a MASSIVE city), by RAW could have 1 18th level wizard.  If you interpret RAW differently, it could at max have 5.  This is the largest city in the whole world and it has 5 guys capable of 9th level magic.The vast majority of cities don't come anywhere near this.  For 99% of the population, low level clerics and wizards are all they could ever see.  And low level spell casters just don't have enough magic oomph to make much difference.But, even with very low numbers, over a long enough time span, those permanent continual lights add up.Take a look back at the demographics section in the 3.5 DMG.  You'll find that the magic level is far lower than you might expect.  Someone mentioned around here about how his 2e campaign was so low magic that all a single 7th level character had was a +3 weapon and some potions.  By 3.x rules, he couldn't even have that.  It isn't until the very high levels 14+ that you see the Christmas tree effect.</blockquote>

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