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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 2940292" data-attributes="member: 18280">So is "mature".   <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> Seriously, though, being self-reflexive is not, in and of itself, either a good thing or a bad thing.  I certainly don't accept that it is "a signal of a genre beginning to mature as a genre"....It can just as easily be a signal of a genre collapsing under its own weight (literally jumping the shark) or a signal of nothing at all.  Compare The Blues Brothers ( <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing    :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" /> ) with the very self-reflective Blues Brothers 2 ( <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused    :confused:"  data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" /> ).OTOH, I think you should re-read Keep on the Borderlands.  It was certainly assumed that the DM could (and would) do a lot of the background work as to why the characters were there, where the Keep was, and what the background story was.  IMHO, the evil power saturating the very stones in the temple cave probably drew the creatures to the area.  The module provides a strong skeleton that the DM must add flesh to.  To my mind, this is not a fault, and is certainly no different than some 3.X modules, such as WLD (which, IMHO, requires a lot more work/room to bring up to par than B2 does...several magnitudes more, I'd say).Far from being no mention of what they ate, Gygax included storerooms of food as "treasure" in the module, and the careful party could surprise some of the humanoids going about their daily business.  One of the orc caves includes an ongoing feast!  (Or, at least, does if the PCs are quite and clever!)  They also lived in a forest, allowing for plentiful game, and carried on raids against the Keep or caravans going to the Keep (as evidenced by their treasure, and supplying the motive to wipe them out).The module included factions and alliances, allowing the PCs to deal with some of the creatures through role playing rather than combat.  It had encounters that took wits to deal with as well as brawn.  It acknowledged that the PCs were not the first adventurers in the area (prisoners & bugbear caves).  And, on top of that, it offered a heck of a lot of adventure.The biggest downside?  The DM had to name the NPCs.  If that forms a major stumbling block, maybe it's time to reconsider this whole DMing thing.....  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> To my mind, B2 is still the benchmark module.  From debating theology with evil acolytes to hunting an owlbear, there's a lot of stuff to do.  The DM advice is good.  The map is cool.  There's plenty of areas for the DM to expand, and there's a lot of room for customization.  Few adventures rival B2 in material per page, fewer still in content.  IMHO, and YMMV, of course.Here, at least, we agree!   <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> RC</blockquote>

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