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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8149266" data-attributes="member: 87792">Oh, indeed. I was specifically objecting to the 2-3 times longer that you claimed in the post I was replying to - not to the principle that it's longer.I will say the ascending AC sped things up a bit. But not enough for the multiple attacks.Here I disagree slightly. The change in state between the two mechanics isn't quite the same - smites are a limited resource and I think that's where the extra d8 comes from.And this is why I defend (a) attacks that spend resources, (b) attacks with forced movement, (c) interrupt attacks, and (d) attacks with riders like &quot;knocked prone&quot;. They all change the state of the fiction (how much forced movement matters depends on the terrain).I've commented and stand by my comment that after 4e's levels of forced movement going back to systems that use battlemaps but no worthwhile forced movement feels like acting against a green screen rather than actually on set.On the other hand having them there can be pretty serious changes to the game state. Especially ones that involve leaping in the way of an attack or blocking an attack for a friend. There's a cost, but a significant benefit.Yes, this was definitely an issue <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I would say I was pretty happy with the result of five damage dice off a single tap encounter power in my 4e session last week - but I'm playing a level 4 character. The dominance of multi-attacks doesn't come in until later.The problem comes when you run it the other way. The hit points recommended by the CR charts for a given level are ridiculous. And in practice I don't want to calculate the CR for existing monsters, I want to use the CR charts to help build my own monster.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 8149266, member: 87792"] Oh, indeed. I was specifically objecting to the 2-3 times longer that you claimed in the post I was replying to - not to the principle that it's longer. I will say the ascending AC sped things up a bit. But not enough for the multiple attacks. Here I disagree slightly. The change in state between the two mechanics isn't quite the same - smites are a limited resource and I think that's where the extra d8 comes from. And this is why I defend (a) attacks that spend resources, (b) attacks with forced movement, (c) interrupt attacks, and (d) attacks with riders like "knocked prone". They all change the state of the fiction (how much forced movement matters depends on the terrain). I've commented and stand by my comment that after 4e's levels of forced movement going back to systems that use battlemaps but no worthwhile forced movement feels like acting against a green screen rather than actually on set. On the other hand having them there can be pretty serious changes to the game state. Especially ones that involve leaping in the way of an attack or blocking an attack for a friend. There's a cost, but a significant benefit. Yes, this was definitely an issue :) I would say I was pretty happy with the result of five damage dice off a single tap encounter power in my 4e session last week - but I'm playing a level 4 character. The dominance of multi-attacks doesn't come in until later. The problem comes when you run it the other way. The hit points recommended by the CR charts for a given level are ridiculous. And in practice I don't want to calculate the CR for existing monsters, I want to use the CR charts to help build my own monster. [/QUOTE]

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