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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Andor" data-source="post: 3552303" data-attributes="member: 1879">I'm not clear what your point is. Do you dislike per-encounter deisign, or role bluring? The fighter is and has always been the ultimate encounter balanced character. From the second he wakes up, till the adventure is over, is abilities are the same in every round. The Rogue is in the same boat, pretty much every other (core) class has some expendable reasources that wear down throughout the day, usually spells, but also Turn attempts, Wildshapes, and other use per day abilities.So D&D has always had a continuum of endurance from Wizards to Fighters.Role-wise, it depends on what you're viewing roles as. Pretty much everyone in a party is expected to be able to kill things. There are differences in technique and tactics, but if you're not racking up the tombstones, you're usually not seen as pulling your weight in the party. So let us ignore lethality for a moment. What other roles do we have in D&D (generically speaking?)Face Man - Mostly the role of skill monkies, at higher levels spells start to take over. None of the new classes really shine here, although Binders can hold their own. Lore Master - Useful but undervalued because you can almost alwayd find an NPC to do it. Skill based, untill high-level divinations.Transporter - Again skill based untill spells take over. Flight becomes pretty critical at higher levels, so almost everone can do it eventually through items or pets.Healer - Cleric is the lord of healing. Several classes can help but no one can match them.Special Monster Hunter - Dealing with monsters with funky abilites like incorporeality and possesion. Cleric, Wizard, Paladin, anybody with the right magic items. Huh. My brain fails me at coming up with other roles. So back to combat we go.Here we have: Single target specialist - Role of the big melee guys, Fighter, Barbarian, maybe rogue if it's susceptible and can be flanked. Later superceded/supplanted by save or die spells.Weenie Hoarde slaying - Spells rule here, Fighter types can cleave pretty well if built to do it.Meat Shield - HP and AC defined. Usually the role of Fighters and Barbarians, clerics can tank well if built for it. Summons can stand in at higher levels.Mobility guy - Runs around the battle field and annoys mages and flankers. Mostly a monk role, but again, at higher levels summons can do it.Hmmm... As I see it, The 9 swords classes don't really hog any of these roles, at best they can fill in a bit for mages once they have run out of spells. Is it a bad thing that the party is less crippled when the big guys run out of spells? Some people seem to think so, I always found the adventuring mode of "Well, we've been at this for 10 minuetes, but we're out of spells so I guess it's time to retreat again." to be pretty damm annoying.</blockquote>

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