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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 2029345" data-attributes="member: 2011">Wow! You gave me an epiphany. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool    :cool:"  data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" /> This is a very interesting point.The question is, can this rule of yours be considered RAW?I think so."Specific Exceptions: Some spells specifically counter each other, especially when they have diametrically opposed effects.""Once you know which creatures (or objects or areas) are affected, and whether those creatures have made successful saving throws (if any were allowed), you can apply whatever results a spell entails.""SlowTargets: One creature/level, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apartSaving Throw: Will negatesSpell Resistance: YesSlow counters and dispels haste."Part of what a Slow spell entails is countering and dispelling Haste. But, how can the effect of the Slow spell go into effect AT ALL if the character makes his save, or the attacker fails the Spell Resistance roll?"Slow counters and dispels haste" is a rule WITHIN the spell description. Hence, it does NOT take effect unless the spell takes effect. The "Specific Exceptions" rule does not trump because it merely states what will happen with certain spell combinations, it does NOT state WHEN that will occur.And, although the effect is the same as counterspelling or dispelling, the rules for this are totally different. You do not need a readied action. You do not need to roll dice. Hence, claiming that it is automatically successful is not stated anywhere in RAW. Just because normal counters and dispels work this way does not mean that RAW explicitly states that "Specific Exceptions" work this way."Usually a harmful spell allows a target to make a saving throw to avoid some or all of the effect. The Saving Throw entry in a spell description defines which type of saving throw the spell allows and describes how saving throws against the spell work.Negates: The spell has no effect on a subject that makes a successful saving throw."No effect. Including dispelling his Haste."Spell resistance is a special defensive ability. If your spell is being resisted by a creature with spell resistance, you must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) at least equal to the creature’s spell resistance for the spell to affect that creature."And, the counter position that the Slow is targeting the Haste and not the creature does not work since the Target of Slow is a creature, NOT a spell.All of these years, most of us have been playing it as an auto-dispel when in reality, RAW does not state that at all. RAW, if read carefully, states the opposite.And, the nice part of this is that the target can voluntarily give up his saving throw and/or his spell resistance in the opposite case: he is Slowed and his ally wants to Haste him to remove it. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />However to be fair, I must point out that the 3E FAQ states:"Two opposite spells simply negate each other. No dispel check is required, no saving throw is allowed, and spell resistance does not apply."So, we also know what designer intent here was. Unfortunately, they did not actually write it that way in the PHB, so people should feel free to play it that way and convince their DMs that this is the way it should be played: According to RAW. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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