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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 450328" data-attributes="member: 3146">You're kidding right? This doesn't come close to polymorph self. At moderate levels, polymorph self (or other) gives (in troll form)Str 22, Dex 14, good con, good natural armor, reach, natural attacks, and the ability to use huge weapons.For your typical 8th level fighter wielding a greatsword, that amounts to +1 to hit, +5 to damage, reach, +1 to reflex saves, and quite a significant bonus to armor class. If the fighter is designed for improved trip or to take advantage of attacks of opportunity, that is even more dramatic since large size makes tripping much easier and reach grants lots of AoOs. If the fighter doesn't normally have an 18 strength (for instance, an iconic fighter would have a 17 strength), that could amount to +2 to hit and +7 to damage.For the typical wizard or fighter/wizard who might use polymorph self, the effect will be even more dramatic since the strength boost will mean that much more.In no way does it come remotely close to Tenser's Transformation in terms of boosts:(Tenser's Transformation IIRC=+1 BAB/2 clvls, +2d4 str, dex, +1d6/clvl temporary hit points, +4 natural armor and +5  competence bonus to fort saves. All told, at 11th level that amounts to an average (assuming net 6 point (avg five plus odd stat) stat gains) of:+8 to hit (and one extra attack on full attack actions), +3 to +5 damage depending upon original strength and whether or not he's weilding a 2handed weapon, + 7 AC, +39 temporary hit points, +3 reflex saves, +5 fortitude saves, and weapon proficiencies.That's significantly better than +4 to hit (double it), +4 to armor class (almost double), and +4 to reflex saves (double the total save bonus).All told, this suggested haste variant certainly shouldn't be more than a third level spell. (I'm not sure I'd even take it at third level for my fighter/wizard--blink in general gives better bonusses (50% miss chance instead of +4 AC, denies opponents dex and gives +2 to hit instead of +4 to hit, half damage from area effects instead of +4 to reflex saves), has noncombat uses (walking through walls and doors), allows me to attack ethereal creatures, and has really nice synergy with expert tactician.) As a 2nd level spell, it would be a gimme (although I'd consider taking Rapid Strikes instead if it were permitted) but as a third level, it's relatively unattractive.</blockquote>

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