NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Victim" data-source="post: 3728522" data-attributes="member: 78">No, it's not.  The level of increase on Mass versions of spells varies from +1 to +4 (maybe more, if you count Weird as Mass Phantasmal Killer).  There is no straight +4 for mass spells.Similarly, Persistent is worth +6 levels in 3.5.  However, since Mage Armor already lasts hours/level, there's generally very little gain to be made from Persisting it.  By the time a character could cast persistent spells, they'd already have a mage armor that functionally lasted all day.  Also, Mage Armor's low level makes using simple recasting to extend the duration more economical than using metamagic in many cases.  Moreover, the long duration of mage armor means that it can readily be applied outside of combat - the ability of a mass spell to affect many targets with a single combat action is not much of an improvement.  So there's no way I'd consider a Mass Persistent Mage Armor to 9th level.  Even 5th level would be a stretch.Anyone can 'dispel' the benefit from IGG simply by attacking the crusader using it.  If the crusader uses a spiked chain to improve his ability to use IGG, then his defensive advantage is lessened and thus the penalty for being 'forced' to attack him is reduced as well.  Also, a spiked chain crusader using IGG is not using Thicket of Blades - the expected choice for a reach build.  So either everyone using Thicket is stupid, or it is an even higher level spell effect.If A can't deal with either the crusader's defensive advantage, or the IGG penalty to his attacks, then he is going down to the 3v1 no matter what.  If A is powerful or has lots of friends to 5 ft step around to the sides and get past the IGG, then it's still not much of an issue.When I played a crusader, most of the time the party didn't bother to stay in IGG range.  The ability to engage enemies across a broader front was more valuable than the AC boost (or more valuable than steering attacks to my character).  Granted, as a general rule most my group's combats take place in more open areas, often with threats coming from different directions.  A simple line of fighter types is then insufficient for protection. If you spend all your time in tight spaces where the party is often forced into remaining adjacent by terrain, then IGG probably is much better.</blockquote>

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