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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 3728610" data-attributes="member: 2011">Mass Bear's Endurance/Cat's Grace, etc. are +4.Mass Charm Monster is 4 (3 for a Bard who cannot afford 4 for a 3rd level spell).Mass Cure/Inflicts spells are 4 (5 for Mass Cure Light for a Druid).Mass Heal is 2 or 3 only because the core book does not allow for 10th and 11th level spells.Mass Holds are 4.Mass Invisibility is 5.Mass Reduce Person is 3.Mass Suggestion is 3.The basic balance here is +4 levels for core spells. 16 out of 21 +4, 1 out of 21 +5, and 3 out of 21 +2 or +3 (and half of these due to spell level limits). So, 2 spells out of 21 are +3 due to the wimpiness of the spell. You are correct that it is not a rule per se, it is more a guideline that WotC typically follows because of balance reasons.And, thanks for correcting my Persistent comment. I had forgotten that it changed.5th level is hardly a stretch. But, I concede your point that a Mass Mage Armor as a 5th level spell could last 9 hours at 9th level. But, IGG is still a 5th level spell equivalent (6th if one considers Extend Mass Mage Armor for 22 hours at 11th level), it still stacks with any other armor, it doesn't require casting a 5th or higher level spell, it can be done at first level, etc.The main downside is that the Crusader has to threaten the attacker. Isn't that his job???Only if they knock him unconsious (or do something else that seriously prevents him from using it). Hardly a proper and fast dispel.Nice try. The Spiked Chain is irrelevant to your analysis here except for AC of the Crusader.Thicket of Blades can be used with IGG, regardless of melee weapon. In fact, ToB and IGG used with Improved Trip can be VERY powerful. One protects one's allies and gets to do all kinds of nasty things to anyone who tries to get past him to attack his allies.The fact that opponents might attack him is mostly irrelevant. It's much easier to heal one PC ally in combat than it is to heal multiple ones. The aggro aspect of this makes the PC's jobs easier, not harder.IGG can protect allies, even if they are not adjacent to the Crusader.Are you sure you were playing IGG to its full potential?</blockquote>

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