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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Bagpuss" data-source="post: 3434654" data-attributes="member: 3987">I had five 5th level PC's encounter the same monster the scout didn't spot it until he was within 10ft of it, due to some bad rolls.The whole party took the avert gaze option to have a 50% chance on not needing to save, and at 20% miss chance. Except for the warmage who was so far back from the party that he was out of range. They killed it without a single person failing the save even though, on at least two occasions what could have been hits weren't due to the miss chance and on a similar number of occasions they had to make saves as they rolled badly on the averting gaze roll.With decent tactics that creature wasn't much of a threat, the save DC is pretty low, the creatures AC isn't difficult for the fighter types that need to get close, and it's other attack isn't great. If you don't need to be close to it to fight you should have looked away and moved out of range of it's gaze. Unless it's looking at you (using it's gaze as an attack action) then you only save on your turn, at which point you can declare you aren't looking at it an avoid making a save altogether.Also from the adventure I know they are told what creature they are about to face, well in advance, if they didn't prepare properly then they only have themselves to blame.</blockquote>