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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8126031" data-attributes="member: 82106">I don't really agree. In terms of its ability to have an overall decisive impact in combat, a Battlemaster isn't suffering any serious problems. Maybe you won't OFTEN rise to the level of performing that one super critical move that turned everything from defeat into victory, but you will certainly churn out damage and act as an impediment to the bad guys ability to simply do what they want. With the right mix of maneuvers you can also visibly increase the effectiveness of other PCs.The problem is the same problem that fighters have always had, THAT IS IT. You don't get anything beyond that from the game. This would be OK if wizards were just guys with a few minor parlor tricks and maybe once in a while an expensive high-risk "go for broke" move, or something like that. But the genre expectations which evolved for D&D are not that. They are a set of expectations under which fighters are "just an ordinary guy" and are barred from doing anything that smells like 'magic' (whatever that is) and wizards are spell factories that have a long list of spell options which are all basically zero cost, beyond a resource mechanic which the players can usually manage in such a way as to seriously blunt its impact (and which 5e has further watered down compared with classic D&D). Even hardcore OSRs with severe rules about when and how you can cast, short spell lists, and strict adherence to materials and such don't quite escape this, because the very existence of strategic magic resources, coupled with the "mundane fighter" means the game will ALWAYS give them no explicit OOC options. The very assumed milieu and genre of D&D fantasy is what creates the 'boring fighter'. 5e is not going to ever fix that. 4e couldn't even totally fix it. 4e gave fighters rituals for a feat, and 5e gives them a half-casting option (or MCing if you like). That's fine, but I've wanted more of a fantastic D&D that just breaks that mold. You can't really get it with 5e. You'd basically have to write another version of 5e. I personally just figured 4e was closer and went from there. In my own game, there are no 'mundane fighters'.</blockquote>

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