Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 8875283" data-attributes="member: 18">What more are people asking for though?I think that's the issue. Any race can be overpowered if you just stick enough bells and whistles on it, it doesn't matter whether they're normal mortals, undead, constructs, or whatever. I'd say even with all they have, they're probably significantly less powerful in real at-the-table terms than say, an Elf of almost any subrace. If anything I think the collection of &quot;undead/construct&quot; abilities that Reborn and Warforged largely share may be slightly overvalued in the same way that natural weapons are insanely overvalued by 5E's designers.(I note Ancestral Legacy really needs revising for 1D&amp;D - indeed the whole design of the VRGtR &quot;Lineages&quot; are kind of an evolutionary dead end in race/species design for 5E/1D&amp;D, not because they're bad, but because that approach is between two chairs, and doesn't really fit with either.)One lens I'd say is useful in analyzing this kind of this is to look solely at the upsides of being a species/race - that sounds perverse, but my experience is, unless the downsides are so&nbsp; overwhelming as to make the character virtually unplayable or a real problem for the entire party, clever players will quickly find a way around them, or generous DMs will give (at some point in the first five levels usually) a way to negate the disadvantage (or the species will only be picked for classes/subclasses where the &quot;disadvantage&quot; is irrelevant). I feel like more recent 5E species design reflects this too. So design should focus on what you get, rather than what you supposedly lose.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 8875283, member: 18"] What more are people asking for though? I think that's the issue. Any race can be overpowered if you just stick enough bells and whistles on it, it doesn't matter whether they're normal mortals, undead, constructs, or whatever. I'd say even with all they have, they're probably significantly less powerful in real at-the-table terms than say, an Elf of almost any subrace. If anything I think the collection of "undead/construct" abilities that Reborn and Warforged largely share may be slightly overvalued in the same way that natural weapons are insanely overvalued by 5E's designers. (I note Ancestral Legacy really needs revising for 1D&D - indeed the whole design of the VRGtR "Lineages" are kind of an evolutionary dead end in race/species design for 5E/1D&D, not because they're bad, but because that approach is between two chairs, and doesn't really fit with either.) One lens I'd say is useful in analyzing this kind of this is to look solely at the upsides of being a species/race - that sounds perverse, but my experience is, unless the downsides are so overwhelming as to make the character virtually unplayable or a real problem for the entire party, clever players will quickly find a way around them, or generous DMs will give (at some point in the first five levels usually) a way to negate the disadvantage (or the species will only be picked for classes/subclasses where the "disadvantage" is irrelevant). I feel like more recent 5E species design reflects this too. So design should focus on what you get, rather than what you supposedly lose. [/QUOTE]

Verification