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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Old Gumphrey" data-source="post: 1618955" data-attributes="member: 12872">Sounds like a spiked chain problem instead of a mechanics problem to me. Seriously. Q: What other weapon allows you to pull a stunt like this?A: Not a single one.The spiked chain is somehow a 2-handed weapon with no leverage, and allows you reach (while using it 2-handed) and the ability to attack adjacently (while still using it 2-handed). It allows you to simultaneously use it with finesse and brute force. The weapon is just silly. Good idea, poorly implimented. [IMC I allow it to be used as a d6/d6 double weapon or a d6 reach weapon interchangeably each round. You can apply finesse or power attack at your provision, but not both.]You're also skewing this quite a bit. You're assuming a few things that simply aren't guarantees. <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The fighter can hit 13 AC every single time on a roll of 2 or better. This means we need Finesse and Focus in additon to a mw/+1 weapon, PA, C, and GC, meaning he can't have Combat Reflexes. EDIT: Forgot something huge as well: EXOTIC WEAPON PROFICIENCY. That means Mr. Elf can't even have Great Cleave. What a shame. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></li> </ul> <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Orcs only have 4 HP. Well, they've got 5. This means at least a 16 str in order to fully drop them with minimum damage. Pretty hard to come by a 16 and an 18 in most creation methods without utterly shafting your other scores. Otherwise we're going to be using some power attack and bring ourselves to point 1, and to a lesser extent, point 3, as you are no longer playing the "don't roll a 1" game.</li> </ul> <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The fighter will never roll a 1. This is the big sticker for me. I see 1's get rolled every single session. If you're making 26 attack rolls, by the law of averages, 1.3 (or 1) of these rolls at the minimum will be a 1. This means the Cleave chain ends and the AO's may not even occur...not that he has Combat Reflexes anyway since he opted for +11 to hit instead.</li> </ul> <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">EDIT: The fighter is surrounded by 20 orcs to begin with, meaning there was an overflow of 20 orcs that all got into perfect position after this fighter took his AO (or AO's depending on the build). Also, the 9 adjacent orcs were unable to cause significant damage to our fighter, who has an absolute celing of about 20 AC with magic and a negative Con stat.</li> </ul>That's also a nice way of looking at it. As long as we're going 100% by the book, I'd like you to show everyone where it says "a single attack roll equates to one swing of a weapon, and only one swing of a weapon". I don't remember reading anything like that. The fact that the feat is called "Cleave" should lead anyone to believe that you are in fact cleaving something. In the spiked chain example it's not too hard to simply assume that you are striking groups of opponents with each swing of your chain.</blockquote>

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