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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ourph" data-source="post: 1619170" data-attributes="member: 20239">I agree, it doesn't work both ways, depending on your biases.  It seems to work one way for some people and one way for others.  I find it very easy to envision an archer taking most of a minute to draw and nock an arrow, position himself for a shot, aim carefully, wait for the right moment to release and then make his attack (in addition to moving if he wants to).  Others think that's ridiculous.  Personally, I think making more than a few attacks (no matter how cinematically you think of it) in 6 seconds is ridiculous. :Sigh:   :\   I thought we were through with accusing me of being ignorant of the rules.  A 4th level Elven Fighter gets 5 feats (normal feats at 1st and 3rd, fighter feats at 1st, 2nd and 4th).  To wield a spiked chain and potentially get up to 26 attacks in one round (if the dice fall the right way) he needs Exotic Weapon Prof - Spiked Chain, Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave and Combat Reflexes.  That's EXACTLY 5 Feats.  At 4th level he qualifies for every one of those feats assuming his Str and Dex scores are high enough.  If we switch him over to longsword, he needs one less feat (no EWP) but still needs to be 4th level to qualify for Great Cleave.If we're talking about the longsword, 7 of those 14 attacks would be individual attacks (he's getting 6 from AoO due to Combat Reflexes).1.  Yes it's specific.  There are numerous other examples in the 3e system of people performing actions in a 6 second round that aren't realistic.  Listing them all would obviously be futile, because you obviously won't even admit the unbelievability of just this one extreme example.2.  You don't need to be extremely high level in order for it to happen with any frequency.  Just assuming the Elf Fighter with his spiked chain has a Str of 14 (not unreasonable for a melee fighter), he's got a 60% chance of hitting your average orc, and a 100% chance of bringing them to 0hp with a successful hit.  That's assuming this 4th level fighter doesn't have a magic weapon, hasn't had his Str boosted with buffing spells or magic items, isn't being affected by his party Cleric's bless spell, etc., etc.  (BTW - Your original post was off in several places.  The character in question doesn't NEED weapon focus, weapon finesse or a MW or magic weapon in order for this scenario to occur.  Orcs have 4 hp, NOT 5, and since the character does a minimum of 4hp damage per hit (2d4 + 2) he will automatically get to cleave on any successful hit.  ::edit::  Just realized that orcs have 4hp in 3.0 and 5hp in 3.5, so call them kobolds in 3.5 ::edit:<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />.3.  I'm taking this example directly from a game I ran several years ago.  No, it didn't happen all the time, but it happened several times in ~4 months of play.  The player loved to engulf himself in mooks and I thought it was pretty cool too.  But I don't think it's "plausible".You don't have to, the DMG explains it for you.   <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> However, your willingness to suspend your disbelief to accomodate an orc-blending fighter is no more reasonable than my willingness to suspend disbelief to accomodate a one minute interval where there's only 1 opportunity (despite numerous attacks, counter-feints, parries, etc.) to do real damage to an opponent.The big bad is watching you, and your only hope of actually hitting him with a rock that will do any good at all (as opposed to simply striking him with no effect) is to wait for a moment when he is distracted and not looking at you and then bean him in the head.  That moment occurs exactly once each minute.And before you make your counter-argument, just let me say that I consider my explanation exactly as reasonable and plausible as I consider your explanation of Cleave, which is to say, not at all.  Like I said, I don't care about plausibility as long as the rules "work".  The rules for 1e and 3e both "work", which (if you'll go back and check) is the whole reason I commented in the first place; because someone claimed the 1 minute round doesn't "work".  Not that it's not plausible or that it's not realistic (both of which I would have wholeheartedly agreed with) but that it's unplayable as a mechanic.~20 years of gaming history prove that wrong.</blockquote>

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